On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 12:22:39PM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:
>"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <enrico.weigelt@???> wrote:
>
>> On 26.07.2017 04:47, Christopher Clements wrote:
>>
>>> My high-school programming class was advertised as teaching people how to
>>> program in C and do all sorts of low-level stuff. I signed up thinking
>>> I might finally meet a "computer expert" that actually knew what they
>>> were talking about...
>>>
>>> The teacher began by forcing us all to make "hello world" applications
>>> IN JAVA!
>
>From "High School" I'm guessing US based ?

Yes.

>I imagine there is the same problem over there as it appears there is
>over here in the UK - teachers have to teach this stuff, but they aren't
>programmers or IT specialists themselves. Similar stories abound of
>"inappropriate" (from our PoV) teaching methods etc, and reprobation
>for anyone caught "hacking" by doing anything outside of the restricted
>teaching syllabus.

I'm not a teacher (thank every religion's diety!), but it seems that in
the US, they are not 'restricted' per se, but are heavily encouraged to
only teach what will be on the next standardized test.

And here I thought that the US had the worst educational system (so
patriotic...). I guess the grass is always greener on the other side?

>[...]
>
>Personally I suspect that none of the "real" programming languages are the
>right choice for initial teaching of this sort. Whatever is used needs
>to be simple so that the language itself doesn't get in the way of the
>task, but powerful enough to be able to teach the principles. Teaching
>any specific language is a bad idea - they come and go, fashions change,
>but someone who understands the underlying concepts should be able to
>pick up a new language fairly quickly.

C89?

>So, picking the first example that came into my head ... If someone is
>teaching "this is how we code a bubble sort in ${language}" then they are
>doing it wrong; someone who teaches "this is how a bubble sort works",
>and then "and this is how it's coded in ${language}" is getting there.
>
>And don't get me started on those "IT" courses that teach "how to write
>a letter in MS Word" etc :-(

That's "Introduction to Computer Science" at my school.

>As to how to fix the shortage of skilled teachers? I suspect that most
>people who can do it don't want to teach, and I suspect that many of them
>might not make good teachers. Absent the magic money tree that so many
>bystanders seem to believe exists (whatever the country or government)
>from which their government can pluck unlimited funds, then there won't be
>the sort of pay/support/limited class sizes/etc that are needed to fix it.

From what I've heard, the profession is basically volunteer work in
public schools.

>[...]
>> then are asked to repair the teacher's broken/incomplete C++ code,
>> with lots of template magic (hmm, do we have some hall of shame, where
>> I can upload his bloat ?).
>
>That's just terrible - and he should be reported for it.

It might not be his fault, perhaps he simply demonstrated that he could
write in Microsoft Word and they gave him the job?

>[...]

>My concern is that so many will be put off altogether by crap initial
>teaching.

Perhaps we can say it's a rite of passage or job security? XD

--
This email has NOT been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://0xc9.net

Of course, there is _absolutely nothing_ stopping me from saying it _has_.
Use common sense and most of your "security" becomes redundant.

GPG Key: 0xF4CB50441726610D5AE0