> I will reiterate my earlier comment. For those who believe that Devuan
> is somehow lacking without GNOME et. al., Debian is a short download
> away.

Debian is a dead end. It got too mired in anal-retentive process that
reinforced its inward-facing nature.

Devuan is the one distribution that was brave enough to deal with problems
even if it's difficult and causes messy conflict.

We are brave enough to change a few lines of code if libsystemd changes its
API. Who *really *thinks stuff like that is a challenge?

We should be brave enough to face outward.

    Bruce

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Nate Bargmann <n0nb@???> wrote:

> * On 2017 20 Jun 12:48 -0500, Joachim Fahrner wrote:
>
> > I disagree. This should be a task for gnome developers, if they want to
> be
> > compatible with non-systemd systems (FreeBSD, Devuan...). If they don't,
> > then forget Gnome. ANY developer outside of the gnome team will ALWAYS be
> > behind the actual development, resulting in unstable ports. I would not
> > accept such ugly "third party workarounds".
>
> I agree with Jochen. Should the GNOME developers determine that they
> would like to reach the largest number of users possible, then they will
> patch their code accordingly. Until that time, chasing their taillights
> is not a productive endeavor.
>
> Earlier in the thread Bruce brought up sysD APIs. What are the APIs
> that sysD has implemented that are proving irresistible to other
> developers. I know there is discussion of logind. As Bruce asserts,
> any of these could be implemented independently. That said, we need to
> ask ourselves, would the sysD developers "improve" their API and break
> backward compatibility? I think if we look at the history of the
> projects mentioned in this thread that the answer is a disheartening,
> yes, yes they would do so.
>
> I will reiterate my earlier comment. For those who believe that Devuan
> is somehow lacking without GNOME et. al., Debian is a short download
> away. I say that not with malice or condescension, but with sincerity
> that your experience will be better with Debian as the Debian developers
> have committed the project to support GNOME in full. Devuan has chosen
> another path. Please respect that.
>
> - Nate
>
> --
>
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."
>
> Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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