On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:06:30PM -0500, golinux@??? wrote:
>On 2017-03-15 21:32, Christopher Clements wrote:
>>On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:55:57AM -0500, golinux@??? wrote:
>>> But what is the point? Our freedoms are being eroded on all fronts -
>>> we are drowning in a tsunami of reversal of choice dictated by those
>>> in power be they Debian or corporations or government.
>>> Rather than piss in the wind...
>>
>> To make this a metaphor, what about pissing _upwind_?
>> I've seen some others suggest notifying upstream developers that making
>> systemd mandatory is a bad idea, and it (notifying them) seems like a
>> good idea, if only to make things easier for Devuan porters.

The exact suggestion is here:
<https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170315.171933.e6bda406.en.html>

> That is an excellent idea. Would be great if someone got organized
> enough to start a dialog with EVERY upstream dev individually and/or
> collectively. Unfortunately, that would be a mammoth task requiring
> more time than most people could find. I've done work like that on
> various issues and know from experience, it is a full time job.

Perhaps just an open letter?

It seemed relatively simple until you brought up the issue of actually
contacting all the developers (without using debian-devel, most likely).
I only thought about one aspect of it, and now it seems like it would
be _impossible_ without using debian-devel or mass-mailing every single
developer (out of the question).

I might still be possible, but I personally cannot think of any way to
do it.

>>> I don't see that putting my (insignificant) name on a list of
>>> whiners as a productive action. It would just get laughed at and
>>> stomped on like ants by Paul Bunyan.
>>
>> It's less about _who_ is on the list, and more about _how many_ names
>> are listed.
>>
>> It's hard to deny there is a problem in the face of a veritable tsunami
>> of proof.
>
> That depends on your definition of a 'veritable tsunami of proof'.
> I have no idea what numbers might catch their attention but I imagine
> it would have to be several hundred thousand at a minimum including a
> long list of big names/enterprises. That would be another excellent
> project for someone reading this to take on. Steve's list could just
> be the first step.

It is my hope that the list will keep growing, and we can just link to
it whenever someone says that systemd only has "a few" detractors.

> Why not follow your own tactical advice and DO something. As for me
> ... I've already got my hands full. From the time I get up in the
> morning till lights out past midnight 7 days a week, I am working on
> something to advance devuan in one way or another.

Just like you, I've got my hands full. I've got a lot of college at
the moment, but I want to help in any way I can.

Thank you for working on Devuan; I'm not exactly capable of showing my
appreciation through email, but I still appreciate all you have done
nonetheless.

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