On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 14:05:34 +0000
Simon Hobson <linux@???> wrote:

> Fred DC <adei@???> wrote:
>
> > My apologies for not realizing that this is an *anti-systemd*
> > mailinglist.
>
> Dunno if that was supposed to be sarcasm or not ...
>
> The list isn't "anti-systemd" - it's pro-freedom. It's just that
> systemd is anti-freedom, and so being pro-freedom can appear to be
> anti-systemd.

The preceding paragraph describes a lot of this list's inhabitants, but
not all. I personally am anti-systemd. Yes, I'm a hater, and proud of
it. To use a term that's come into its own in the last six months, I
refuse to *normalize* bad architecture, monopolism, bad architecture
in the pursuit of monopolism, Poettering or Redhat, by saying "I'm not
anti-systemd, I'm pro-freedom". Nope, I'm anti-systemd, plain and
simple. The fact that I'm also pro-freedom is quite apart from the fact
that I detest every aspect of systemd: technical, political and
economic. I say the preceding sentence with the full knowledge that
Simon's right: systemd takes away our freedom to operate our computers
our way.

There was a time when I too espoused the "I'm not anti-systemd, I'm
pro-freedom" party line. Matter of fact, if memory serves me, I
invented that line back in August or September of 2014. But that was
back when I was on the old Debian-User mailing list, and I was trying to
appear moderate to fix the situation from within. Those days are long
gone, now I say what I mean.

Let's look at some logic: By far the main *technological* difference
between Devuan and Debian is that Devuan ripped out systemd. Anybody
who wants, or even tolerates, Devuan with systemd, would just go with
Debian. The fact that somebody goes with Devuan is a pretty clear
indication that at least on a technological level, [s]he is
anti-systemd.

As a final comment, remember back to the people coming on this list
basically saying "systemd's not that bad." They weren't treated well. I
even wrote this essay after one such incident:

http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/init/killfile.htm

SteveT

Steve Litt
December 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21