On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 at 12:23:06 -0500
Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:11:10 +0000
> Simon Hobson <linux@???> wrote:
>
> > Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@???> wrote:
>
> > But then, this is all getting well off-topic for the list and the
> > thread. The point remains - neither patents nor DMCA are relevant.
>
> Indeed we are getting well offtopic. In fact, patents weren't part of
> the discussion until someone brought them in in an attempt to scuttle my
> suggestion of having a "free software only (y/n)" switch on
> installation.

Wrong.
Concerning this suggestion this is what I wrote
(https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161206.133050.2451985a.en.html):

| That'd be a nice piece of software to have. I'd like to see someone
| working of such a beast.
|
|
| Thank you for your contribution.

> Also not part of the discussion: I never said the original poster's
> problem was lack of proprietary drivers.

You implied it fully.
(https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161205.185544.60e46eac.en.html):

| On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 09:05:11 +0800
| Robert Storey <robert.storey@???> wrote:
|
|[...]
|
|> The whole problem is getting networking set up either during or after
|> the install.
|
| This is a problem with many distros, and it would be cool if Devuan
| could provide easy ways to bust through the catch-22s that difficult
| hardware produces.
|
| The biggest problem: One I don't think Devuan has, is those Free
| Software or Bust fools who won't even provide proprietary drivers for
| video and networking during installation.

That is, Robert Storey complains about networking not being set up during
install, writes nothing about missing drivers, and you first off start calling
people names without provocation, then start ranting about missing
"proprietary drivers for video and networking".

> Look back at the thread: I
> said that *in addition to* the OP's problem,

Nope, wrong again, you're only stating that now.

> and once again, the same
> guy who brought patents into the mix asserted that I had falsely
> diagnosed the OP's problem.

You surely did:

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161206.220637.24cd7edb.en.html

|Author: Robert Storey
|Date: 2016-12-06 23:06 +100
|To: dng
|Subject: Re: [DNG] Networking on installation: was Devuan GNU+Linux Beta2
|release Alessandro Selli said:
|
|> I'd like to point out that including proprietary drivers does
|> not address any of the issues Robert Storey described:
|>
|> 1) no WiFi support in the install program;
|> 2) no DHCP autoconfiguration using a wired Ethernet connection;
|> 3) Wicd missing after installation.
|>
|> None of the above has anything to do with hardware support
|> or missing proprietary drivers/firmware.
|
|Yes, exactly. My problem had nothing to do with a lack of drivers.



> Speaking of this same guy, it turns out he's the only one in the whole
> thread who consistently prioritizes free software purity over getting
> the thing installed without booting System Rescue CD, chroot
> installing, and then going out and scavenging the necessary driver.

See? It's just you who are obsessed with drivers, that are *not* the issue
this thread was all about. Faced with this misconception of yours, you try
to shift the blame of the supposed "free software purits".

> And
> guys like this were exactly what I was talking about: I award him the
> Ralph Nader Screw Your Constituancy Award,

Of course calling peole names is the only way you can feel to the the Only
Smart Guy Who Sees Truth.

[...]

> At one point the guy gave me the following suggestion:
>
> =================================================
> If your vision of Devuan is something like Ubuntu, with
> every kind of software ditched-in just for the sake of attracting
> unsuspecting victims into it's snares, I think you'd better direct your
> efforts into Ubuntu of like Gnome or Unity based distribution.
> =================================================
>
> OK fine, for sure for sure. And I have the following suggestion for him:
>
> If you prioritize a state of pristine Free Software purity over
> everything else,

Not over everything else. I understand you've got to put your words into
other people's mouths to illude yourself to be right, but my position is only
the... official Devuan position:
https://www.devuan.org/os/free-software

I suggest you read this document and decide whether you chose the wrong
distribution for your aims.

[...]

> Because the one-issue-voter redefined my position during this thread,
> let me make my position perfectly clear:
>
> * I completely support the OP's assertion that the installer must
> contain and bestow all the free software necessary to install via
> hardware that can work with free software.

The OP never complained about missing proprietary drivers. It was you who
introduced this matter in message
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161205.185544.60e46eac.en.html .

> * IN ADDITION TO,

This you are stating for the first time now.

> and in now way contradictory to or trying to diagnose
> what was said by the OP, I support the availablility of nonfree wifi,
> video, mouse and keyboard drivers and firmware, to the extent that
> it's legal, so that the user can, if he chooses, install easily. I
> think such availability should be switchable early in the install.

I already commented on this proposal. I quote myself again:

| That'd be a nice piece of software to have. I'd like to see someone
| working of such a beast.


> * Because most wifi software sucks,

Now you write *most*. You were of a different advice a short awhile ago:

https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20161205.185544.60e46eac.en.html

| Wifi is always problematic. Always. NetworkManager, Wicd, and even the
| wpa_* all seem to fail at just the wrong time.


I award you the Best Backpedaler of the Week Award.


Cordially,


--
Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net
VOIP SIP: dhatarattha@???
Chiavi PGP/GPG keys: B7FD89FD, 4A904FD9