On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 12:11:10 +0000
Simon Hobson <linux@???> wrote:

> Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI <renaud@???> wrote:

> But then, this is all getting well off-topic for the list and the
> thread. The point remains - neither patents nor DMCA are relevant.

Indeed we are getting well offtopic. In fact, patents weren't part of
the discussion until someone brought them in in an attempt to scuttle my
suggestion of having a "free software only (y/n)" switch on
installation.

Also not part of the discussion: I never said the original poster's
problem was lack of proprietary drivers. Look back at the thread: I
said that *in addition to* the OP's problem, and once again, the same
guy who brought patents into the mix asserted that I had falsely
diagnosed the OP's problem.

Speaking of this same guy, it turns out he's the only one in the whole
thread who consistently prioritizes free software purity over getting
the thing installed without booting System Rescue CD, chroot
installing, and then going out and scavenging the necessary driver. And
guys like this were exactly what I was talking about: I award him the
Ralph Nader Screw Your Constituancy Award, because in removing that
last 1% of nonfree (legal but nonfree) software, he sends most people
with problematic wifi or video to Ubuntu, or perhaps to Mac or Windows.
Yeah, that's good for Free Software.

At one point the guy gave me the following suggestion:

=================================================
If your vision of Devuan is something like Ubuntu, with
every kind of software ditched-in just for the sake of attracting
unsuspecting victims into it's snares, I think you'd better direct your
efforts into Ubuntu of like Gnome or Unity based distribution.
=================================================

OK fine, for sure for sure. And I have the following suggestion for him:

If you prioritize a state of pristine Free Software purity over
everything else, including the ability to install 99% Free Software
without undocumented experimental incantations, then I suggest you
direct your attention toward never-blob distros like Dragora,
Linux-libre, or Trisquel. And you'd better buy hardware from System76
or Penguin Computing. Oh wait a minute: Those double-priced computers
are guaranteed to work with *Ubuntu* or "Linux Pre-Configured using the
empkernel to provide full hardware support." Better hope that empkernel
is blobless.

Because the one-issue-voter redefined my position during this thread,
let me make my position perfectly clear:

* I completely support the OP's assertion that the installer must
contain and bestow all the free software necessary to install via
hardware that can work with free software.

* IN ADDITION TO, and in now way contradictory to or trying to diagnose
what was said by the OP, I support the availablility of nonfree wifi,
video, mouse and keyboard drivers and firmware, to the extent that
it's legal, so that the user can, if he chooses, install easily. I
think such availability should be switchable early in the install.

* Because most wifi software sucks, I suggest Devuan roll its own CLI
software, for the installation, that iwlist wlan0 scanning lists the
access points, takes the ssid and password, and then appends the
result of wpa_passphrase to the bottom
of /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf. In my experience this is
the most reliable way to get wifi running for a given access point.

* I also suggest we default to, or at least give the option for, public
DNS resolvers such as 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4.

* The perfect is the enemy of the good.

SteveT

Steve Litt
November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz