>> The biggest problem: One I don't think Devuan has, is those Free
>> Software or Bust fools who won't even provide proprietary drivers for
>> video and networking during installation.
>    Actually this is *not* a problem with GNU/Linux distros or "Free Software
> or Bust fools", it's a problem with proprietary software and closed
> hardware.
>    I'd like to point out that including proprietary drivers does not address
> any of the issues Robert Storey described:

>    None of the above has anything to do with hardware support or missing
> proprietary drivers/firmware.

>> Which of course leaves the
>> user to find out exactly what driver is needed, find out where to get
>> it, put it there in the middle of the install (how?), and try again.
>    Devuan was born with the intention of removing the artificial limits
> systemd is imposing users.  Proprietary software is even worse in restricting
> people's choice.  If your vision of Devuan is something like Ubuntu, with
> every kind of software ditched-in just for the sake of attracting
> unsuspecting victims into it's snares, I think you'd better direct your
> efforts into Ubuntu of like Gnome or Unity based distribution.

>> You can't expect that kind of patience from the vast majority of users.
>    Freedom and choice do come with a cost: the cost of patience and
> endurance.  Sometimes eve the cost of struggle.  If what you want is an easy,
> cozy, just-click-OK-and-everything-runs-as-smooth-as-you-wished distribution,
> then I think you're the OSX kind of user.  Not GNU/Linux, much less Devuan or
> similar freedom-oriented distribution.

>> They'll just switch to Ubuntu or whatever.
>    If that's what they want, that's precisely where they ought to direct their
> efforts to.  One of the nice things about GNU/Linux is that it comes in so
> many versions and flavors, you can choose the distribution that best suits
> your needs, technical expertise, field of use and (lack of) patience.  I think
> the idea that all GNU/Linux distributions ought to work all the very same way
> is deeply wrong and short-sighted.

>> Wifi is always problematic. Always.
>    It was not to me.  I just chose supported hardware.  Unsupported hardware
> is a PITA in every distribution and OS.

>> NetworkManager, Wicd, and even the
>> wpa_* all seem to fail at just the wrong time.
>    I disinstalled NetworkManager and never installed Wicd.  My WiFi networks
> I'm dealing with making use of wpa_supplicant and wpa_gui alone.

>> 4) Ask for default router
>>     a) With very helpful prompts and help

>> 5) Ask if they'd like default dns 8888 and 8844
>>     a) If not, suggest the default router

>> 7) By hook or by crook, get a DHCP lease
>>     a) If necessary, put DHCP server on this computer

>> 8) Verify lookup of devuan.org
>>     a) If not, run some intelligent diagnostic software
>    That'd be a nice piece of software to have.  I'd like to see someone
> working of such a beast.

>    Thank you for your contribution.