Il giorno Mon, 5 Dec 2016 13:55:44 -0500
Steve Litt <slitt@???> ha scritto:

> On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 09:05:11 +0800
> Robert Storey <robert.storey@???> wrote:
>
> > It pains me to say this, but the installation program for Devuan
> > Beta2 is seriously broken. And I say this not as some kind of troll,
> > but rather as a Devuan enthusiast who has already been running Devuan
> > as my main system for six months.
> >
> > The whole problem is getting networking set up either during or after
> > the install.
>
> This is a problem with many distros, and it would be cool if Devuan
> could provide easy ways to bust through the catch-22s that difficult
> hardware produces.
>
> The biggest problem: One I don't think Devuan has, is those Free
> Software or Bust fools who won't even provide proprietary drivers for
> video and networking during installation.

Actually this is *not* a problem with GNU/Linux distros or "Free Software
or Bust fools", it's a problem with proprietary software and closed
hardware.
I'd like to point out that including proprietary drivers does not address
any of the issues Robert Storey described:

1) no WiFi support in the install program;
2) no DHCP autoconfiguration using a wired Ethernet connection;
3) Wicd missing after installation.

None of the above has anything to do with hardware support or missing
proprietary drivers/firmware.

> Which of course leaves the
> user to find out exactly what driver is needed, find out where to get
> it, put it there in the middle of the install (how?), and try again.

Devuan was born with the intention of removing the artificial limits
systemd is imposing users. Proprietary software is even worse in restricting
people's choice. If your vision of Devuan is something like Ubuntu, with
every kind of software ditched-in just for the sake of attracting
unsuspecting victims into it's snares, I think you'd better direct your
efforts into Ubuntu of like Gnome or Unity based distribution.

> You can't expect that kind of patience from the vast majority of users.

Freedom and choice do come with a cost: the cost of patience and
endurance. Sometimes eve the cost of struggle. If what you want is an easy,
cozy, just-click-OK-and-everything-runs-as-smooth-as-you-wished distribution,
then I think you're the OSX kind of user. Not GNU/Linux, much less Devuan or
similar freedom-oriented distribution.

> They'll just switch to Ubuntu or whatever.

If that's what they want, that's precisely where they ought to direct their
efforts to. One of the nice things about GNU/Linux is that it comes in so
many versions and flavors, you can choose the distribution that best suits
your needs, technical expertise, field of use and (lack of) patience. I think
the idea that all GNU/Linux distributions ought to work all the very same way
is deeply wrong and short-sighted.

> Wifi is always problematic. Always.

It was not to me. I just chose supported hardware. Unsupported hardware
is a PITA in every distribution and OS.

> NetworkManager, Wicd, and even the
> wpa_* all seem to fail at just the wrong time.

I disinstalled NetworkManager and never installed Wicd. My WiFi networks
I'm dealing with making use of wpa_supplicant and wpa_gui alone.

> If I were Devuan, I'd
> create a wifi module that:
>
> 1) Displays the wifi signals in signal strength order
>
> 2) Asks which you want, THAT YOU HAVE A PASSWORD FOR!!!
>
> 3) Ask for the password twice,verify they match
>

> 4) Ask for default router
>     a) With very helpful prompts and help

>

> 5) Ask if they'd like default dns 8888 and 8844
>     a) If not, suggest the default router

>
> 6) Run acquired passphrase through wpa_passphrase >> wpa_supplicant.conf
>

> 7) By hook or by crook, get a DHCP lease
>     a) If necessary, put DHCP server on this computer

>

> 8) Verify lookup of devuan.org
>     a) If not, run some intelligent diagnostic software

That'd be a nice piece of software to have. I'd like to see someone
working of such a beast.


Thank you for your contribution.


--
Alessandro Selli http://alessandro.route-add.net
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