On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:06:34 +0100
hellekin <hellekin@???> wrote:

> On 11/09/2016 11:05 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > The final documentation should be done on something more permanent,
> > based on the back-and forth in email. The talk.devuan.org would be a
> > great place to put the finished docs. My problem with
> > talk.devuan.org is when I used it for brainstorming. I couldn't
> > tell who wrote what when, and it ended up a mixed up jumble instead
> > of good documentation.
>
> Come on, it's a linear discussion, much like email.

I'm just saying: I tried and it became a mixed up jumble. It doesn't
have the equivalent of email's hash marks, and you can't tell who wrote
what without extensive mind-draining parsing.

> Moreover nobody
> gave it a chance to work all the way from conversation to discussion
> to wiki to static page with comments looping back to conversation.

We gave it as much of a chance as our schedules allowed. The thing was
a time sink.


> Resistance has spoken. The DocSprint is supposed to change that, and
> show that it's worth trying.
>
> The finished docs should be in devuan-doc package, that you can read
> in various formats, including a nice HTML documentation on localhost,
> that you can mirror anywhere and translate easily.

Everyone agrees with the preceding paragraph. The preceding paragraph
has nothing to do with, or should have nothing to do with,
devuan-discuss or talk.devuan.org. How we arrive at thoughts that go
into documentation is a human challenge, not a technological one. If it
were most convenient to have those discussions with two tin cans and a
string, that's what we should do. It turns out that a mailing list like
DNG is the most convenient way for people scattered across the globe to
have a discussion.

> It's been the
> plan for a long time, and there have been two types of reaction: help
> doing it, or complain.

The message of the preceding paragraph was used over and over again by
Debian's systemd supporters in the Debian-User civil war. Complaining
is a perfectly acceptable response when the thing needing help is a bad
thing.

The alternative to devuan-discuss is obvious: Talk out the documentation
parameters on DNG, and when agreement has been reached, somebody makes
a devuan-doc document based on the DNG thread. That works, it's easy,
we already have the infrastructure, it's popular. Just do that.

>
> I feel like every time I'm trying to touch something, nobody cares, or
> resist for some obscure reason. In these conditions, I'm very much
> doubting my own capacity to bring anything worth to this community.
> I'd like that it's made clear, so I can better orient my energy.

That's not rational. You've been a huge part of making Devuan. Everyone
cared, nobody resisted. You're focusing on this one little thing:
Devuan-discuss, that's not popular, probably because it's a huge
inconvenience to users. You have a big win: Devuan. You have a tiny
loss: Devuan-discuss. There's no rational way this can be translated
into not being able to "bring anything worth to this community."

Every single person in this community likes and is grateful for the
majority of your contributions.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt
November 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz