Maybe someone else has something to say? Especially if you revel in beating a dead horse . . .

-------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/28/16, hellekin <hellekin@???> wrote:

Subject: [DNG] On talk.do and Web forums
To: "dng" <dng@???>
Date: Wednesday, September 28, 2016, 3:08 AM
>
> On IRC #devuan: <golinux> hellekin: Can we PLEASE move on from
> Discourse. Very few people are using it and those who are loathe it for
> the most part. It's holding back Devuan's community growth!
>

I left that message on #devuan-www not #devuan

>
> Let me state it one last time, by email, so that it can be read by
> everyone and we can have a discussion about it, instead of a persistent
> and frankly annoying counter-productive attitude regarding talk.devuan.org.
>
> No, we're not moving on from Discourse.
>

And there you have it.

>
> Yes, very few people are using it.
>

That should tell you something.

>
> Yes, *some* people insist on loathing it, and although I have tried to
> address every single of their arguments, they keep coming at it without
> even trying (e.g., to *not* use the Web after their account is
> registered.) Maybe there's some missing documentation about how to use
> Discourse as a mailing list only.
>

Personally, I don't want to mix ML apples with forum oranges.

>
> I don't think anybody here as much to say against mailing list apart
> from the well-known issues:
>

[blah, blah why discourse is so amazing]

>
> So, I understand that Discourse is not for everyone, its web interface
> requires some heavy Javascript that can be slow, and it doesn't look
> like you would like, and certainly not like any forum out there, where
> you just sit and shout. But you need to understand that:
>
> 1) we're thinking of a *tool* towards a *goal*: knowledge management
> 2) it can be *used by email* (as a mailing list, requiring very few
> interaction with the Web at all)
> 3) nothing prevents anyone from *setting up another forum software*
>

Sigh . . . As someone discussing talk.do on another forum nicely summed up:

". . . the forum design over there is a bit perplexing given the philosophy that gave birth to Devuan in the first place."

How did we get from KISS to bloated, Fisher-Price SNS in a heartbeat?

>
> Which brings me to the last argument: "It's holding back Devuan's
> community growth!"
>
> Really, golinux, do you think it does? FriendsOfDevuan has a wiki that
> is mentioned in the official documentation page on
> devuan.org/os/documentation while it's not operated by the VUA, so be my
> guest and make a popular forum that will help grow the Devuan community.
> I think the two objectives are orthogonal, and certainly not incompatible.
>

I don't see multiplicity of forums/blogs as a solution to the deficiencies of an 'official' forum.

>
> I know you've been arguing the talk.do was a threat to the mailing
> lists.
>

FTR, I don't 'argue'. I do express opinions however . . . At one point I thought dng might be going byebye once the forum was available. It didn't and I'm happy about that (though lately nothing has been happening there either).

>
> Yet, officially, DNG has been replaced by devuan-discuss and
> devuan-announce mailing lists, which see seldom traffic so far.
>

Which again says something.

>
> That means we're not in an univocal world where "the VUA decide" and "the
> community follows".
>

We're not?

>

[snip]

>
> With Devuan we're trying to give another take on what an universal OS
> means, and for that we want to have a compact set of tools that enables
> more diversity in the expression of what is, how to make, and who makes
> "a distro". *In my opinion*, talk.do has an important role to play in
> this strategy, as does the devuan-sdk, and Amprolla and build
> automation, etc. But I certainly do not support the idea that my
> opinion is the only valid one. I'd rather not have *another* forum
> software under devuan.org to avoid dissipating energies. But I
> certainly cannot prevent the community from deciding that my vision is
> moot and go on setting up something that may eventually replace it.
> Devuan is not Python: there's no one-true-way here.
>

But it seems 'your vision' = the one true 'official' Devuan forum and that is non-negotiable.

The ship will either sail or sink. It is a process that only time will sort out. I surrender . . .

:)

golinux


>
> <3
>
> ==
> hk
>
> P.S.: I'm tempted to post this to devuan-discuss and talk.do, but hey,
> let's not cross-post :)
>