I can send you Kurdish how kurdish seperatists are actually fighting for
the Kontra-Gel (the Kurdish military base) hierarchy, but it would have to
be all in Turkish.

I don't have the time to translate all of it in English. But the
declaration of KCK in Turkish is online, in here:

https://tr.wikisource.org/wiki/KCK_S%C3%B6zle%C5%9Fmesi

"Madde 11Reberiya Koma Civakên Kurdistan

Koma Civakên Kurdistan (Kürdistan Demokratik Toplum Konfederalizmi)
kurucusu ve Önderi, Abdullah Öcalan’dır. Ekolojiye ve cinsiyet özgürlüğüne
dayalı demokrasinin felsefik, teorik ve stratejik kuramcısıdır. Her alanda
bütün halkı temsil eden önderlik kurumudur. Kürdistan halkının özgür ve
demokratik yaşamına ilişkin temel politikaları gözetir ve temel konulardaki
en son karar merciidir. Kongra Gel Genel Kurul kararlarının demokratik,
ekolojik ve cinsiyet özgürlükçü devrim çizgisine uygunluğunu gözetir.
Yürütme Konseyi Başkanını görevlendirir. Temel konulara ilişkin Yürütme
Konseyi kararlarını onaylar."
This clearly states that founder and the leader is Abdullah Öcalan and he
(other people he selects) are the final decision making authority of
anything. Anything Abdullah Öcalan disagrees with cannot be done by anyone
in KCK hierarchy. "

All lower local councils etc, can only decide small matters where there is
no disagreement with Abdullah Öcalan and their Kontra-Gel (military arm of
KCK) hierarchy.

The whole document says it is not a government or state, gives lip service
to grassroots freedom, ecology, sustainability, women's rights, but it then
clearly defines hierarchies, a fixed one man leader at the top, and no way
to resolve any conflict with this particular man and any other local
Kurdish person. His word is the final word. No election to vote.

This is why I don't believe in any of their claims for freedom. I dislike
Tayyip Erdogan. But at least there is an election process and some hope the
next election he will go away. This contract is basically giving one man
(Abdullah Öcalan) dictatorship powers: What he says is the law.

Ask anyone from PKK/KCK what happens to someone local who disagrees with
Abdullah Öcalan and calls him Terrorist and wants justice for the crimes he
committed. If any of you anarchists are in contact with anyone in PKK/KCK.

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Penny Gaff <pennygaffgallery@???>
wrote:

> Just an impartial observer here attempting to gain better understanding.
> David graeber self proclaimed "anarchist" is also a staunch supporter of
> kurdish seperatists in turkey and suggests they are anarchists. Could
> someone please explain to me on what basis do these kurdish seperatests
> share an anarchist ethos and are there examples of nonhierarchical
> organization and operation among them?
>
> Cheers
> On Jun 25, 2016 12:02 PM, "Caleb James DeLisle" <cjd@???> wrote:
>
> I told him to fuck off a week ago when he was using shame tactics to stop
> conversation. Takeaway is once you see someone using dirty debate tricks
> it's easier to just tell them off, ignore and move on.
>
> Unfortunately in anonymous communities, there is no time to educate people
> who innocently don't know how to debate and real agent-provocateurs can
> keep on coming back over and over with different names. This is my biggest
> issue with anonymity - though I do understand it's necessity in certain
> situations.
>
> Love
>
>
>
> On 25/06/16 20:27, Amir wrote:
>
>> Go back to mongolia oppressor.
>>
>> I bet you deny the Armenian genocide also.
>>
>> you are a statist fascist.
>>
>> To everyone: this guy is a secret supporter Erdogan but he will deny it.
>>
>> Özer Tayiz:
>>
>>> Haha baited
>>>
>>> Terrorist supporter misandrist detected.
>>>
>>> Amir:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Amir <amir@???> wrote:
>>>
>>> haha baited. Turkish misogynist statist detected.
>>>>>
>>>>> calls himself an anarchist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Özer Tayiz:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, right. As if that would solve anything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kurdish seperatist terrorists are responsible for killing thousands
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> innocent people in Turkey. Both of Turkish and Kurdish ethnicity.
>>>>>>> And the
>>>>>>> PKK is aiming for even more oppression of the local population than
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> current
>>>>>
>>>>>> Turkish government.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here, a video of PKK killing Kurdish people:
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW2W9ihBkQ4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greece cannot handle their own financial crisis. Let alone take over
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> territory from Turkey. They're practically bankrupt. If EU didn't
>>>>>>> bail
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> them
>>>>>
>>>>>> out, they would have collapsed long before now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And after Brexit, I doubt if there will be any EU left, in a decade
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And eastern-southern parts of Turkey (that Kurds claim) are among the
>>>>>>> poorest regions of Turkey, despite vast government support in terms
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> subsidies etc. They cannot survive on their own, if they were
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>
>>>>>> separated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If they are separated, they will only have a puppet dictator
>>>>>>> USA-Israel
>>>>>>> brings, just like the situation in occupied countries, like Iraq,
>>>>>>> Afghanistan, etc. And the local population will suffer from even
>>>>>>> worse
>>>>>>> oppression.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there is a solution to violence, it won't come from separatist
>>>>>>> terrorists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And no, US policy is not sane at all. US-Israel policy is a never
>>>>>>> ending
>>>>>>> war and separation of all middle east into hundreds of micro states.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> old "divide and conquer" strategy of all empires.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Trump or any other president won't even change a thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The american policy of "new american century" is above who wins which
>>>>>>> election. There is no president who can end imperialistic policies of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> USA.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/new-american-century/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here, this video explains what is happening in Middle East and why:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM2Fi1rhYqc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As an anarchist, born and raised in Turkey I don't agree with
>>>>>>> initiation
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> violence, or fascism on either side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And again I don't understand why this is even a discussion of this
>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't have any actual power over these politics. No one asks me
>>>>>>> or you
>>>>>>> or members of this list, how to handle conflicts in Turkey or middle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> east.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other than:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't use fiat money. Use gold, silver, bitcoins. Barter. Get out of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> debt.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Learn how to live local, sustainable, resilient lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Including how to grow your own food, build your own house, and
>>>>>>> produce
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> your
>>>>>
>>>>>> own energy...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Amir <amir@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://haber.sol.org.tr/video/video-hdpden-cizre-videosu-159328
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An attack in Istanbul dominates the news. Meanwhile the same
>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>
>>>>>> day is happening everyday. Entire neighbourhoods being flattened,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>
>>>>>> being killed and pressure to force Kurds into big cities - all by the
>>>>>>>>>>> benevolent Turkish state.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile Hillary Clinton, the humanitarian, supports Erdogan and
>>>>>>>>>>> Turkish occupation of Rojava under the guise of a "no-fly zone".
>>>>>>>>>>> She
>>>>>>>>>>> stands with Erdogan, denying the Armenian genocide.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "A vote for Hillary Clinton is a vote for endless, stupid war" by
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>
>>>>>> Assange: https://wikileaks.org/hillary-war/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At least Donald Trump has a sane foreign policy; support Rojava,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> reject
>>>>>
>>>>>> Turkey. All this talk by leftists about their compassion for refugees
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>> getting on my nerves, and actually seems to be a facade for their
>>>>>>>>>>> politics of power.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Leftists don't care about refugees. It's all "feel goodism".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/Analysis/2faa5690-0cea-44cf-82c3-40aeb47cf871/-US-to-strengthen-friendship-with-Kurds-after-IS-
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Trump's foreign minister:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "First, he stated that the US will gather all its allies in Syria
>>>>>>>>>>> against IS, including Kurds who operate in the northern part of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> country known as Rojava [Syrian Kurdistan]."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "In [his] view, this way, the US will create and support “a
>>>>>>>>>>> freedom
>>>>>>>>>>> area” in northern Syria."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How about a real solution to the crisis, instead of lets bring
>>>>>>>>>>> all of
>>>>>>>>>>> Syria to Europe.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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