Caleb James DeLisle:

> It is not an easy fact for some people to accept but we must recognize
> that whatever systems we build to protect victims will be used by people,
> women, to get power over others. These people do what they do even
> knowing that their false accusations promote a culture of indifference
> toward the tragically large demographic who are in real physical danger.

That's crucial on this debate.

And as Julia said: "What do you prefer?... some m**f** running outside
of one innocent at jail?". What about if that innocent is you?. Are you
ready to give that privilege to the "Community"?

That's a BIG question to be solved.

If we go to old Rome justice code, they choose first. "We are innocent
until guilty is probed". Is that actually happening at society?. As my
particular non-exclusive experience, not.

Democracy (with actual Justice system indeed) is nice to use it against
others, no to help them. Is a complete failed system.

How can we solve as Community, "domestic/private/emotional/" problems?.

Are we gonna create white/black lists of (that we think) misconducts?.

Danm'it, please not!

> I myself was threatened with false rape accusation - and ironically the
> objective was to ruin my reputation within a community which I nolonger
> respect nor want to take part in. I count myself lucky because I choose
> to live a very transparent lifestyle so blackmail is not possible but
> my heart is with all those who have been cornered and trapped by
> blackmail, emotional abuse and false accusation.
>
> More about my experience is here:
> https://gist.github.com/cjdelisle/0f90a6f14e89d73a1aefc845f9ff270f

Really interesting words. Thanks to you also for share your case. Maybe
we need to have more "private data" about all this things. I mean, like
reunions of ex-alcoholics...

Also I think this debate is very related with leaking another kind of
information. If we need to expose names or not of some "corruptions"
acts of people on the way to engage "justice".

I don't like it, because on history always that Community has this power
it decays on a kind of public Inquisition, always managed by m*f*s.

> As far as keeping a git repository of accounts, if I have 2 accounts
> other my own then I would be ok to create the repo. I have no objection
> to it other than pure lack of material.
>
> I don't know what is the right thing to do, I'm not sure anybody does.
> I just want a better world where everyone can feel safe and where
> people do not use secrets and lies to gain power over one another.

Is a problem really extended at society, that some movements are trying
to give ore visibilty. We need to go out about statistics and talk about
persons. But we have the handicap of make them more damage, as I did 2
emails ago with my friend Cristina. Is a really delicate them. And we
need to don't hidden it on a box. Our revolution should be feminist.
Should be inclusive. Because if not, it will never be a revolution.

We should create some "imaginarium" without sex distiction. I actually
understand about that machism is more power on a balance. And this is
making a lot of pain to all women arround the world. I am totally
conscience of that. And I am a man... I am actually part of the problem.
And I hope, as you said, one day we pass to a condition of part of the
solution.

> Caleb
>
>
> On 20/06/16 18:32, psy wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> Right now I cannot introduce myself to talk in deep about this
>> interesting thread, just precisely because I'm currently a victim of a
>> false accusation and because of legal reasons is better than I don't
>> explain it publicly, yet.
>>
>> Cristina, is curious that I know that famous sec-community guy that you
>> mentioned on your email and have heard his version of the events with
>> you. I would like to hear yours so we can take a clearer position.
>>
>> Maybe also we can invite him to talk about it, here, of course, if you
>> want...
>>
>> Look, my particular case goes about a person who tries to take
>> advantages of my "fame" position on Community, using fear against me,
>> about publish my private life to that Community as an emotional
>> blackmail. And she did it, but now talking truth.
>>
>> Caleb, I would like to see a github here with cases of emotional
>> blackmail explaining when a person is famous and the other wants to be.
>>
>> Or cases of false allegations.
>>
>> Then there are those who want to wait for a court ruling. In Spain, the
>> law punishes gender man since the complaint is made. No matter when it
>> is done, as in my case, I was to 650kms of the person and take more than
>> 6 months without seeing her. Nothing account. The machinery of
>> repression unattended on that things and crushes anyone. Now I need to
>> probe (with tickets, conversations, etc..) all my movements during that
>> dates. Ridiculous.
>>
>> I think we should address the issue from several points. The community
>> and the collective emotions. The Inquisition we are making base on
>> strange moralistic points of view, etc...
>>
>> Also we should remember to that opportunists people who exploits these
>> issues to attack others under an envy hidden flag.
>>
>> or we can talk about a scientific point of view, explaining how hormonal
>> instability works because of gender.
>>
>> And an endless number of things.
>>
>> Look, I am a feminist until it becomes a totalitarian strategic. A
>> extremist method who kick me because of my genitals (testicles). Not
>> because of my ethics point of view. Or my facts. There, when I feel that
>> on a Community, I leave it fast. I don't want to be used sometimes to
>> expose gender equality, but tried in other to try to hurt my other
>> activists men like me. No way!
>>
>> I prefer to live my asexuality, alone, surrounded of animals, that
>> expose my intellectual work to the criterion of a Community that bases
>> all on "his word against yours."
>>
>> Especially because hackers have more important things to do than keep
>> mails to prove innocence. Think about it, we are really vulnerable to
>> this things.
>>
>> There are people who take advantage of our secrecy to abuse our
>> solidarity. There are people throwing you to the state machine so that
>> you are devoured by issues of heartbreak. Is easy to send hackers to a
>> flame and destroy them emotionally. One day, some of that hackers will
>> commit a suicide.. and this Community that is "died" has you said, will
>> need to pay a big prize for their free-easy allegations.
>>
>> I do not judge, yet. I don't know nothing about this concrete case of
>> Jack A, so I prefer to don't make a probably wrong opinion.
>>
>> But I know that I am with the victims. Whoever they are. No gender
>> distinction. And I will be ever with them.. But, I am not stupid. I know
>> that "victimhood" is another weapon to use when a relationships turns
>> toxic, so better to have more information before to take a position.
>>
>> For me, the hacker community is more alive than ever.
>>
>> ------
>>
>> PD: I bookmarked this thread for a more deep future contribution. Thanks
>> for your time to read that short introduction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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