On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Özer Tayiz <otayiz@???> wrote:
> All I see is a blog post and a story. I don't speak german, so I am not
> sure links from this blog is court cases, or german rape laws.
>
With all you are saying it sounds like you don't believe sexism exist. If
that's the case, we can't continue this conversation as there is no common
ground and our very basic views of society differ a lot, it would take huge
texts until we would reach a basic common argument. Those texts have been
written already, so I will not repeat it here.
> If someone has any other real information (evidence, police or court
> reports etc) about a specific case I am willing to consider it.
>
> But I don't know either this Jack guy, or any of the accusers of him. I
> have no way of determining a story on a blog post if is true or false.
>
> "We need to take victim's stories seriously".
>
> Burden of proof lies with the accuser. No one can be judged only based on
> stories, or online blog posts, but evidence, due process, courts etc.
>
> With all these accusations, is there a court case, police report, rape kit
> submitted, a court finding Jake guilty of anything?
>
> Otherwise, I'll write a story of rape against anyone I don't like in any
> community, claim they raped me, find me a few others to join bandwagon of
> smear campaign and not just discredit or smear one individual, but the
> whole communities that include him.
>
> There were many accusations about Bill Cosby. Now he is suing (and
> winning) his false accusers.
>
> Up to now, I don't see anything of valid credible proof of any wrong
> doing. I'll still assume anyone accused to be innocent till proven guilty
> by a court of his peers. Based on evidence. Not just stories.
>
> He is accused, not convicted of anything.
>
> Remember Assange also has charges against him (imho utter bs accusations).
>
> I'll give him the benefit of doubt till he is proven guilty and convicted.
>
> To me it still looks like a smear campaign.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Bruno Gola <brunogola@???> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Bruno Gola <brunogola@???> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Özer Tayiz <otayiz@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And while I don't know about the particulars of the accusation or
>>>> incident, as soon as I hear "a prominent hacker is accused of sexual
>>>> misconduct" I immediately assume false allegation. Nowadays disagreeing a
>>>> feminist online is considered a crime. The simplest "throw mud at someone"
>>>> tactic these days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> sorry, but you are wrong.
>>>
>>
>> I recommend you read this
>> https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/the-forest-for-the-trees.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Özer Tayiz <otayiz@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why don't you fuck off yourself?
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a perfectly safe space for you:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://static8.depositphotos.com/1343665/820/i/950/depositphotos_8205615-Mental-hospital-padded-room-from.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Caleb James DeLisle <cjd@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> fuck off
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 17/06/16 19:00, Özer Tayiz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you trying to concern troll hacker community?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you suggest? "see something, say something" policies to rat
>>>>>>> out each other to authorities?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *lol* go sell your crazy somewhere else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ctpr5znM4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 7:37 PM, Cristina [efecto99] <
>>>>>>> efecto99@??? <mailto:efecto99@riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 16/06/16 21:00, Tim Patrick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think one bad apple (no pun intended) should spoil the
>>>>>>>> entire bunch. The hacker/journalist/leak community will still be a open,
>>>>>>>> progessive, tolerant community even with a few nasty people in it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. "ONE" apple?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. +: accomplices & abettors are responsible for that, too
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. "The hacker/journalist/leak community will still be a open,
>>>>>>> progressive, tolerant community": HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>>>>>> Tell me another joke.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You both, as a lot of people from "our community", still need to
>>>>>>> wake up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspected that this email fron Caleb would collect these kind
>>>>>>> of answers, but i didn't think they would be so naive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cristina (99)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 16, 2016, Caleb James DeLisle <<mailto:
>>>>>>>> cjd@???>cjd@??? <mailto:cjd@cjdns.fr>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the beginning of June 2016, news broke that a prominent
>>>>>>>> member of the Hacker/Journalist/Leak
>>>>>>>> Community had become the target of multiple serious
>>>>>>>> allegations of sexual misconduct. I was aware
>>>>>>>> of certain aspects of this person and after reading the
>>>>>>>> accounts, certain things *clicked* for me
>>>>>>>> which I had not seen or could not perceive before. If this
>>>>>>>> person had acted alone, lead a
>>>>>>>> double-life and secretly done terrible things, I might
>>>>>>>> never have cared to collect this information.
>>>>>>>> The most painful realization was that these things could
>>>>>>>> never have been done alone, at every step
>>>>>>>> of the way the Community *had* to have protected him,
>>>>>>>> covered up the stories and shushed the
>>>>>>>> victims. This event lead me to the tragic realization that
>>>>>>>> the Open, Tolerant and Progressive Hacker
>>>>>>>> Community of which I believed myself a member - was no more
>>>>>>>> than a figment of my imagination.
>>>>>>>> It is fair to say that in my heart I believe the victims,
>>>>>>>> but I have chosen to maintain this
>>>>>>>> repository with the highest level of impartiality that I
>>>>>>>> can, so I might sleep at night even if I am
>>>>>>>> proven to be wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/cjdelisle/JakeGate
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list:http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Esta comunicación puede ser ilegalmente recogida y almacenada
>>>>>>> por la Agencia Nacional de Seguridad de los EEUU (NSA) + otras, en secreto
>>>>>>> y no. bla bla bla: si a esta altura no sabes, lee
>>>>>>> https://wikileaks.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bruno Gola <brunogola@???>
>>> http://bgo.la/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bruno Gola <brunogola@???>
>> http://bgo.la/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
--
Bruno Gola <brunogola@???>
http://bgo.la/
::
Re: [unSYSTEM] The day the Hacker C…
%20about%20a%20specific%20case%20I%20am%20willing%20to%20consider%20it.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20But%20I%20don't%20know%20either%20this%20Jack%20guy,%20or%20any%20of%20the%20accusers%20of%20him.%20I%0A>%20>%20have%20no%20way%20of%20determining%20a%20story%20on%20a%20blog%20post%20if%20is%20true%20or%20false.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20%22We%20need%20to%20take%20victim's%20stories%20seriously%22.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20Burden%20of%20proof%20lies%20with%20the%20accuser.%20No%20one%20can%20be%20judged%20only%20based%20on%0A>%20>%20stories,%20or%20online%20blog%20posts,%20but%20evidence,%20due%20process,%20courts%20etc.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20With%20all%20these%20accusations,%20is%20there%20a%20court%20case,%20police%20report,%20rape%20kit%0A>%20>%20submitted,%20a%20court%20finding%20Jake%20guilty%20of%20anything?%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20Otherwise,%20I'll%20write%20a%20story%20of%20rape%20against%20anyone%20I%20don't%20like%20in%20any%0A>%20>%20community,%20claim%20they%20raped%20me,%20find%20me%20a%20few%20others%20to%20join%20bandwagon%20of%0A>%20>%20smear%20campaign%20and%20not%20just%20discredit%20or%20smear%20one%20individual,%20but%20the%0A>%20>%20whole%20communities%20that%20include%20him.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20There%20were%20many%20accusations%20about%20Bill%20Cosby.%20Now%20he%20is%20suing%20(and%0A>%20>%20winning)%20his%20false%20accusers.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20Up%20to%20now,%20I%20don't%20see%20anything%20of%20valid%20credible%20proof%20of%20any%20wrong%0A>%20>%20doing.%20I'll%20still%20assume%20anyone%20accused%20to%20be%20innocent%20till%20proven%20guilty%0A>%20>%20by%20a%20court%20of%20his%20peers.%20Based%20on%20evidence.%20Not%20just%20stories.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20He%20is%20accused,%20not%20convicted%20of%20anything.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20Remember%20Assange%20also%20has%20charges%20against%20him%20(imho%20utter%20bs%20accusations).%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20I'll%20give%20him%20the%20benefit%20of%20doubt%20till%20he%20is%20proven%20guilty%20and%20convicted.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20To%20me%20it%20still%20looks%20like%20a%20smear%20campaign.%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20On%20Fri,%20Jun%2017,%202016%20at%2012:11%20PM,%20Bruno%20Gola%20<brunogola@???>%20wrote:%0A>%20>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%20On%20Fri,%20Jun%2017,%202016%20at%207:10%20PM,%20Bruno%20Gola%20<brunogola@???>%20wrote:%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>%20On%20Fri,%20Jun%2017,%202016%20at%207:09%20PM,%20%C3%96zer%20Tayiz%20<otayiz@???>%20wrote:%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>>%20And%20while%20I%20don't%20know%20about%20the%20particulars%20of%20the%20accusation%20or%0A>%20>>>>%20incident,%20as%20soon%20as%20I%20hear%20%22a%20prominent%20hacker%20is%20accused%20of%20sexual%0A>%20>>>>%20misconduct%22%20I%20immediately%20assume%20false%20allegation.%20Nowadays%20disagreeing%20a%0A>%20>>>>%20feminist%20online%20is%20considered%20a%20crime.%20The%20simplest%20%22throw%20mud%20at%20someone%22%0A>%20>>>>%20tactic%20these%20days.%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>%20sorry,%20but%20you%20are%20wrong.%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%20I%20recommend%20you%20read%20this%0A>%20>>%20https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/the-forest-for-the-trees.html%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>>%20On%20Fri,%20Jun%2017,%202016%20at%2012:05%20PM,%20%C3%96zer%20Tayiz%20<otayiz@???>%20wrote:%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%20Why%20don't%20you%20fuck%20off%20yourself?%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%20Here%20is%20a%20perfectly%20safe%20space%20for%20you:%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%20http://static8.depositphotos.com/1343665/820/i/950/depositphotos_8205615-Mental-hospital-padded-room-from.jpg%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%20On%20Fri,%20Jun%2017,%202016%20at%2012:03%20PM,%20Caleb%20James%20DeLisle%20<cjd@???>%0A>%20>>>>>%20wrote:%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>%20fuck%20off%0A>%20>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>%20On%2017/06/16%2019:00,%20%C3%96zer%20Tayiz%20wrote:%0A>%20>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20Are%20you%20trying%20to%20concern%20troll%20hacker%20community?%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20What%20do%20you%20suggest?%20%22see%20something,%20say%20something%22%20policies%20to%20rat%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20out%20each%20other%20to%20authorities?%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20*lol*%20go%20sell%20your%20crazy%20somewhere%20else.%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ctpr5znM4%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20On%20Thu,%20Jun%2016,%202016%20at%207:37%20PM,%20Cristina%20%5Befecto99%5D%20<%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20efecto99@???%20<mailto:efecto99@riseup.net>>%20wrote:%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%20https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20_______________________________________________%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20unSYSTEM%20mailing%20list:%20http://unsystem.net%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem%0A>%20>>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>>>%20_______________________________________________%0A>%20>>>>>>%20unSYSTEM%20mailing%20list:%20http://unsystem.net%0A>%20>>>>>>%20https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem%0A>%20>>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>>%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>>%20_______________________________________________%0A>%20>>>>%20unSYSTEM%20mailing%20list:%20http://unsystem.net%0A>%20>>>>%20https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>>%20--%0A>%20>>>%20Bruno%20Gola%20<brunogola@???>%0A>%20>>>%20http://bgo.la/%0A>%20>>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%20--%0A>%20>>%20Bruno%20Gola%20<brunogola@???>%0A>%20>>%20http://bgo.la/%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%20_______________________________________________%0A>%20>>%20unSYSTEM%20mailing%20list:%20http://unsystem.net%0A>%20>>%20https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>>%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%20_______________________________________________%0A>%20>%20unSYSTEM%20mailing%20list:%20http://unsystem.net%0A>%20>%20https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem%0A>%20>%0A>%20>%0A>%20%0A>%20%0A>%20--%20%0A>%20Bruno%20Gola%20<brunogola@???>%0A>%20http://bgo.la/%0A>%20 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