On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 22:49:27 +0200
Irrwahn <irrwahn@???> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Jun 2016 15:47:49 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> [...]
> > Then I'd write a shellscript workalike for Suckless Init. In my
> > opinion, once you've done that, you should publicize it like the
> > Autumn leaves, because you've done a service to all of Linuxdom,
> > and you've especially done a service to Devuan, whose root story is
> > that init should be simple.
> [...]
>
> I'm probably missing something important here, so I have
> to ask: What would be the point in replacing an easily
> comprehensible, self-contained and statically linked piece
> of code[1] by some script, howsoever simple, that relies
> on an (in comparison) gigantic and potentially buggy blob
> like a shell[2]?
>
> To me that's not exactly KISS. Does your mileage vary that
> much, or am I simply missing the point?


Hi Urban,

I failed to make my point. Let me try again...

The one and only point in replacing an easily comprehensible,
self-contained and statically linked piece of code by some script is
for the purposes of demonstration and propaganda. Nobody in
their right mind would permanently use a shellscript to PID1 a machine
used to do actual work.

Felker's PID1, and even more so Suckless Init,
are system level C that aren't as comprehensible as /bin/sh or /bin/csh
would be. Especially if Edward would comment liberally.

Right now, Felker's PID1 is the acknowledged "Hello World" PID1. But as
I remember you have to add an #include to get it to work with
mainstream Linuxes, you have to get it to compile, and it's just not as
understandable to non-C programmers.

Hackers who might not know C are more able to put their own commands
into the shellscript and see the result.

And then there's the propaganda value. Over and over and over again,
Lennart and the Redhats have told us how complex, do not touch, no user
serviceable parts inside init systems are. And now we find that Edward
Bartolo has used a couple shellscripts and some commands from runit to
init a computer. It's priceless.

Edward Bartolo > Lennart Poettering

The preceding angle bracket means "greater than"

Here's an article I wrote with a similar flavor:

http://troubleshooters.com/linux/init/manjaro_experiments.htm#is_that_all_there_is

So Urban, once again, the reasons for a shellscript PID1 are:

* Learning
* Demonstration and teaching
* Propaganda

For real systems doing real work, use a compiled PID1.

SteveT

Steve Litt
June 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting: Why Bother?
http://www.troubleshooters.com/twb