Hi,

Thanks Steve for clarifying my position that I cannot trust Debian.
For a very minimal Debian system what Debian claimed may be true, but
when it comes to setting up a useable system, Systemd & Co. sneaks in.

I despise software lock-ins, therefore, I cannot accept a project like
systemd that infiltrates everywhere and that makes many assumptions on
how I run my OS basing on what the clueless often expect. I want my
setup as I want it to be including vital parts of the OS.

Jaromil, I do NOT advocate Systemd & Co. I have in the past painfully
experienced software lock-in when I was still using Borland's Delphi.
Delphi started to be exorbitantly priced. Furthermore, since Delphi
was a Windows program, Borland expected one to upgrade hardware in
the manner MS Windows sheeple do. I understood the trap, and refuse to
thread onto it resulting into myself not being able to code for
several years. This forced me to learn C and C++ on my own.

Long Life REAL Software Choice! That is why I contributed to Devuan
with my time, effort and energy. I did NOT want wifi users being
locked in through NOT being able to install a network manager as a
result of refusing to use systemd.


Edward

On 31/05/2016, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2016 08:50:08 +0200
> Jaromil <jaromil@???> wrote:
>
>> dear Edward,
>>
>> On Tue, 31 May 2016, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>>
>> > I have just been informed Debian 8 (Jessie) can be installed without
>> > systemd by using the command: preseed/late_command="in-target
>> > apt-get install -y sysvinit-core"
>>
>> interesting that this is still the default and hypocritical answer
>> from Debian. IMHO it is rather irresponsible of them to give that
>> answer to users. They should point to Devuan instead.
>>
>> Anyway, please keep in mind that Debian gives no warranty on the
>> maintenance of sysvinit scripts, while several sysvinit related
>> packages are unmaintained.
>>
>> If you still trust Debian's leadership to act in your interest after
>> the GR vote, I recommend you try it and use it for a while, then be so
>> kind to let us know how it goes.
>
> I don't think Edward meant that Debian's OK just because it can
> currently be installed sans-systemd, or that he trusts Debian. I think
> it was just a comment on what he'd heard.
>
> A quick search of my Debian-User archives indicates Edward wasn't on
> that mailing list when the Debian project showed its true colors, so
> he might not know just how snaky they are.
>
> I like the three points you raise in your three paragraphs:
>
> 1) Debian should just point to Devuan for those wanting sans-systemd
>
> 2) Debian is a poor basket in which to keep one's sans-systemd assets
>
> 3) The Debian project has real problems, morally and intellectually.
>
> Thanks,
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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