Linux mint mate desktop as far as I know works without systemd.
On Apr 24, 2016 3:52 PM, <dng-request@???> wrote:
> Send Dng mailing list submissions to
> dng@???
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> dng-request@???
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> dng-owner@???
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Dng digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Which desktops work without systemd (Steve Litt)
> 2. Re: Which desktops work without systemd (Steve Litt)
> 3. Re: Which desktops work without systemd (Mitt Green)
> 4. Re: Which desktops work without systemd (Didier Kryn)
> 5. Re: debootstrap requires key (Haines Brown)
> 6. Re: debootstrap requires key (parazyd)
> 7. Gtk Development (aitor_czr)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:14:37 -0400
> From: Steve Litt <slitt@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd
> Message-ID: <20160424141437.482dc074@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:12:18 +0300
> Mitt Green <mitt_green@???> wrote:
>
>
> > I suppose, he meant that there's a fine line between
> > a window manager and a DE sometimes.
>
> Thanks Mitt,
>
> What I really meant is there's a very fuzzy line. As I stated before, a
> spectrum.
>
> > EDE (Equinox Desktop Environment) includes only a
> > window manager and a panel, as far as I know.
> > Some window managers provide panel (bar) too, think Fluxbox,
> > Blackbox, dwm and its remakes, i3, wmii. FVWM lets you make your own
> > panels and what people now call widgets.
>
> > LXDE, on the other hand, has its own panel, file manager,
> > task manager, appearance settings programme,
> > desktop and session. So, 'tis an environment definitely.
>
> So, if I took dwm, packaged it with the fbpanel panel, an fbpanel
> config tool, the Rox Filer file manager, the scrot screenshot utility,
> the dmenu app-selector, Edward's Network Tool (forgot its current name),
> and a custom GUI app, made by me, that acquires settings from the user
> and recompiled dwm accordingly (dwm must be recompiled to be
> configured), and a special menu leading to all these addons, and name
> the whole thing GammaRay, then GammaRay is a DE using dwm as its WM?
>
> If that's your definition, then there is indeed a clear line of
> demarcation. And that well may be the definition.
>
> But in everyday life, that's not how most people define them. How often
> do you hear Xfce being called a "window manager"? Happens all the time.
> LXDE and IceWM have pretty much identical user interfaces and
> functionalities, except LXDE has a few more peripheral utilities. If
> IceWM chose to give a separate name to its window manager component (the
> component that manages and decorates windows), then IceWM would be
> considered a DE, whereas because of its lightweightness and the fact
> that it doesn't give a separate name to its window manager component
> (and perhaps its window manager component isn't a distinct module),
> I've seen it uniformly called a "window manager."
>
> If one defines a window manager as the thing that decorates and
> controls windows, and a desktop environment as a group of software
> containing and interacting with a distinct, thin-interfaced window
> manager module, then most X interfaces are DEs. Heck, even Openbox
> ships with a system menu and an (incomplete) configuration GUI. With
> the definitions declared at the top of this paragraph, some window
> managers are surrounded by more software than others, and they're almost
> uniformly DEs, because a pure WM would be useless to most folks.
>
> But the REAL problem is that it seems like each person has his own
> definition of WM and DE. Which means when they ask questions, you must
> preface the discussion by their querying their definition. In this
> thread, does Xfce qualify? Does LXDE? Openbox? Dwm? We have to go back
> to the OP to find out. I find a vocabulary leading to that level of
> ambiguity unsettling.
>
> I wish we lived in a world with a single name for both concepts. I use
> wm/de or wmde a lot. Perhaps TLGUI (Top Level Graphical User
> Interface). Because in 95% of interactions, it would save time and
> garner clarity if a person said "I want a TLGUI that's lightweight, but
> it's got to have a panel and a GUI config program."
>
> This has very little to do with Devuan or systemd, so it's not
> something to get worked up about. It's just something to think about.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 14:17:06 -0400
> From: Steve Litt <slitt@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd
> Message-ID: <20160424141706.621cb87b@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:38:04 +0100
> Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@???> wrote:
>
> > Steve Litt writes:
> > > I've never been afraid of sounding ignorant, especially when I'm
> > > right.
> >
> > Uhm.
> >
> > > One more thing: I think this whole wm/de thing is a useless
> > > distinction that never should have been made.
> >
> > I suppose I count as an old fart, because I was around twenty-plus
> > years ago, when it was made.
> >
> > So do you want a history lesson, or do you want to go on just being
> > right?
>
> I'm not sure the preceding sentence yields a mutual exclusivity, but
> yes, I really would like that history lesson, as this is something that
> has bothered me for a long time.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> April 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:43:55 +0300
> From: Mitt Green <mitt_green@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd
> Message-ID: <20160424184355.5840979.8371.1050@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Steve Litt wrote:
>
> > So, if I took dwm, packaged it with the fbpanel
> > panel, an fbpanel config tool,
>
> Why would you use fbpanel with dwm though,
> the default bar is pretty hackable. Certainly, if
> you need a window list, then why not, but since
> dwm is a tiling window manager by default
> (and most use this mode), your windows won't
> be lost.
>
> > the Rox Filer file manager, the scrot screenshot
> > utility, the dmenu app-selector, Edward's Network
> > Tool (forgot its current name),
>
> ENT then!
>
> > and a custom GUI app, made by me, that acquires
> > settings from the user and recompiled dwm
> > accordingly
>
> hehe, why would a dwm user need a GUI for this
>
> > (dwm must be recompiled to be configured), and
> > a special menu leading to all these addons, and name
> > the whole thing GammaRay, then GammaRay is a DE using > dwm as its WM?
>
> No, it would be dwm with all these shenanigans.
> I mean, if a project (one project) would make these
> utilities, then you can call it a desktop environment.
>
> [...]
>
> > How often do you hear Xfce being called a
> > "window manager"?
>
> Have never heard. Because it's a desktop environment,
> and Xfwm is its window manager. Xfce project
> develops a panel, a desktop, a window manager,
> a text editor, an archive manager, a power manager,
> a session and all the components share a configuration
> system, that is also made by them.
>
> > LXDE and IceWM have pretty much identical user
> > interfaces and functionalities, except LXDE has a few
> > more peripheral utilities.
>
> And that is what makes it a DE.
>
> [...]
>
> > Heck, even Openbox ships with a system menu and an
> > (incomplete) configuration GUI.
>
> Having a graphic configuration tool still doesn't
> make a window manager a desktop environment.
> Many have - Flux-/Black-/Openbox, FVWM,
> Jaysus, even Xfwm and Metacity do, too.
>
> > In this thread, does Xfce qualify? Does LXDE?
> > Openbox? Dwm?
>
> Xfce - a DE. LXDE - a DE. Openbox - a WM. dwm
> - a WM.
>
> > It's just something to think about.
>
> It doesn't even matter.
>
> / Mitt
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 20:46:02 +0200
> From: Didier Kryn <kryn@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] Which desktops work without systemd
> Message-ID: <571D146A.8040502@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Le 24/04/2016 20:17, Steve Litt a écrit :
> > On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:38:04 +0100
> > Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@???> wrote:
> >
> >> Steve Litt writes:
> >>> I've never been afraid of sounding ignorant, especially when I'm
> >>> right.
> >> Uhm.
> >>
> >>> One more thing: I think this whole wm/de thing is a useless
> >>> distinction that never should have been made.
> >> I suppose I count as an old fart, because I was around twenty-plus
> >> years ago, when it was made.
> >>
> >> So do you want a history lesson, or do you want to go on just being
> >> right?
> > I'm not sure the preceding sentence yields a mutual exclusivity, but
> > yes, I really would like that history lesson, as this is something that
> > has bothered me for a long time.
> >
> > SteveT
> >
>
> I would say that the minimal DE is startx, others feature at least
> some menu and/or panel; all need a window manager (actually Xwindow
> requires a window manager) and all support the concept of a session with
> a startup and a termination. At least that's how I see how the concepts
> pile up; am I wrong?
>
> Didier
>
> Didier
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 15:02:41 -0400
> From: Haines Brown <haines@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key
> Message-ID: <20160424190241.GD4650@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 03:41:51PM +0100, dev1fanboy wrote:
>
> > When you say installed debootstrap on a new disk, you mean the host
> > OS? What architecture is the host and the 'target' disk, are they
> > different?
>
> Sorry I was not clearer. I meant debootstrap installed a base system on
> a new disk.
>
> # debootstrap --no-check-gpg jessie /mnt/debinst \
> https://packages.devuan.org/devuan
>
> The host, my currently running machine, runs debootstrap, targetting a
> new partitioned disk mounted on /mnt/debinst. I'm assuming debootstrap
> can be run anywhere, and it installs a base system wherever it is told
> to do it. Years ago I did cross installations, but the process has
> gotten a lot more complicated.
>
> Haines Brown
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:37:24 +0200
> From: parazyd <parazyd@???>
> To: Haines Brown <haines@???>
> Cc: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] debootstrap requires key
> Message-ID: <20160424193724.GA19408@hansolo>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2016, Haines Brown wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 03:41:51PM +0100, dev1fanboy wrote:
> >
> > > When you say installed debootstrap on a new disk, you mean the host
> > > OS? What architecture is the host and the 'target' disk, are they
> > > different?
> >
> > Sorry I was not clearer. I meant debootstrap installed a base system on
> > a new disk.
> >
> > # debootstrap --no-check-gpg jessie /mnt/debinst \
> > https://packages.devuan.org/devuan
> >
> > The host, my currently running machine, runs debootstrap, targetting a
> > new partitioned disk mounted on /mnt/debinst. I'm assuming debootstrap
> > can be run anywhere, and it installs a base system wherever it is told
> > to do it. Years ago I did cross installations, but the process has
> > gotten a lot more complicated.
>
> Yes, debootstrap works on any system. Note that if you wish to bootstrap
> devuan systems, use devuan's debootstrap (which was fixed):
> https://packages.devuan.org/devuan/pool/main/d/debootstrap/
>
> Also, for next steps, I'd recommend you to see how the ARM SDK works,
> particularly the devuan profile:
>
> https://git.devuan.org/devuan/arm-sdk/blob/master/arm/profiles/common-devuan
>
> --
> ~ parazyd
> 6CB4 6C63 641D B1F1 F811 5B3A BB5E 2E35 B92E 373E
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: not available
> Type: application/pgp-signature
> Size: 819 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20160424/0894b0e7/attachment.sig
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 21:51:22 +0200
> From: aitor_czr <aitor_czr@???>
> To: Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@???>, Edward Bartolo
> <edbarx@???>, dng <dng@???>
> Subject: [DNG] Gtk Development
> Message-ID: <571D23BA.1030108@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi all,
>
> Here you are an example about how to build a gtkmm application using cmake:
>
> www.gnuinos.org/PrintPDF
>
> This is the same example as:
>
>
> https://developer.gnome.org/gtkmm-tutorial/3.20/gtkmm-tutorial.html#sec-printing-example
>
> including some changes in the code. I'll explain them later.
>
> The application prints the content of the window to a pdf document.
>
> @Edward:
>
> Have a look at the code of mainwindow.cpp. You can include the .xml code
> generated by glade in a .cpp file.
>
> Nonetheless, i'm also avoiding the use of GtkBuilder in Simple-Netaid,
> like you.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aitor.
>
> P.D.- How to build:
> mkdir build
> cd build
> cmake ../
> make
>
> You need to install gtkmm, cairomm, pangomm...
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20160424/e753df04/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@???
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Dng Digest, Vol 19, Issue 76
> ***********************************
>
::
Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 19, Issue…
