On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 12:31:08PM +0000, Dave Turner wrote:
> On 28/02/16 07:03, Joel Roth wrote:
> >On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 02:32:45AM +0000, hellekin wrote:
> >>On 02/27/2016 03:28 AM, Simon Wise wrote:
> >>>something as minimal as possible, like above, seems a very good option.
> >>I dream of a core Devuan that is modular so that the Desktop Environment
> >>is a *blend* that you layer on top of core. That way, you can have a
> >>choice of DEs that users can prepare for their own pleasure.
> >For people like my dad who simply need to reach their
> >applications, something like icewm is enough. They don't
> >have the interest or aptitude to master a complex desktop
> >environment with twitchy GUIs in the style of Apple's recent
> >offerings.
> >
> >>The question of the default DE comes next: Devuan should be shipped with
> >>a default DE. So far we've been focusing on XFCE, for reasons unknown
> >>to me (normally I use a tiled WM without DE).
> >I, too, have found grace (or at least sufficient
> >convenience) in tiled WMs :)
> >
> >I agree that if Xfce floats enough boats, and can be
> >integrated okay, why not?
> >
> >Alternatively, having a minimal window manager as default,
> >possibly with a menu choice to upgrade to a fancier DE, seems
> >like a way to convey that the various DEs are *user
> >interfaces* rather than representing the OS itself.
> >
> >That goes with another radical idea: having people login at
> >the console and type 'startx'. That way, when later there is
> >some problem, you can ask the person to type some commands
> >in the console, and they know at least to type something at
> >a prompt and conclude with the Enter key. They can also
> >understand that X is a layer on top of the base OS.
> >
> >These concepts seems quite alien to many users. I think that
> >even this minimal exposure to the command line could
> >stimulate curiosity about what the terminal can be used to
> >accomplish. At the minimum, people will know it is
> >there.
> >
> >Maybe I am missing something about the motivations behind
> >and the benefits of a graphical login screen, but it seems
> >like the main value is allowing people to run their computer
> >without ever seeing the command prompt. I think it would be
> >of more value for people to encounter the command prompt,
> >even if briefly.
> >
> >
> >>I can imagine that Jessie 1.0 Beta will ship with XFCE by default.
> >>I hope Jessie 1.0 will ship with a choice for WM/DE, each implemented as
> >>a blend. That way the community can maintain a collection of *properly
> >>configured and integrated desktops* for those who want to use that, and
> >>leave the rest of us free to build on the foundation, not just decorate
> >>of a pre-chewed environment.
> >It would be great cooperation to have one group to hack on
> >the DE stuff, while leaving the Devuan core developers free
> >to concentrate on lower-level concerns.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Joel
> >>==
> >>hk
> >>

> >>-- 
> >>  _ _     We are free to share code and we code to share freedom
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> I think the above is closest to my views on the matter.
> Which window manager and desktop environment I choose to use is up
> to me and nothing for devuan to worry about.
> I use xfce a lot and would like it to work on devuan, but don't
> waste valuable time on it.

Am I mistake? Am I perhaps only dreaming that I'm using xfce on
devuan jessie? Or is there some technical issue I'm unaware of?

> I'm old enough to cope quite well with twm, I like using ctwm, and I
> really like fluxbox.


I like icewm, too, and will be trying the others you mention just in
case I'm missing something I'm not yet aware of.

I tried lxde and didn't like it -- somehow the mouse became just
slightly jerky and slightly unresponsive. Not lear how WM would cause
this -- maybe it does permanent mouse tracking in a way that incurs
overhead?

-- hendrik

> Typing startx on the command line should not be beyond anybody who
> wants to try devuan.
> I even persuaded the normal people that use my iMac to do it for a while!
>
> DaveT
>
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