On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 02:45:34PM +0100, richard lucassen wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 12:46:20 +0000
> KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:
>
> > And what is exactly your plan to have Devuan somehow merged "into
> > Debian", given that any attempt to criticise, even in a constructive
> > manner, any systemd-related stuff is immediately labelled as
> > "trolling" in debian-user (just to make an example)?
>
> That is why I mentioned "silent diplomacy". It makes no sense to start
> a flame war on a list populated by a "systemd <on|off>" crowd. I have
> nothing against systemd, if someone wants to use it, it's ok for me.
> There is more than <on|off>. That's all I want to say.
>
> > What is the choice offered by Debian once they have decided that
> > systemd has to be a not-unpluggable component of a Debian system?
>
> For the moment I'm still able to run Debian systemd free, apart from
> libsystemd0. And unfortunately I am not able to predict the future of
> Debian, nor the future of systemd.
>
> > How could we dream of having a systemd-free Debian if the only
> > alternative offered by Debian, and accepted by the TC, is
> > systemd-o-la-muerte?
>
> Silent diplomacy is the keyword IMHO. The only argument is "freedom of
> choice". The problem is that such a discussion often ends up
> technical arguments against <any init system> (which is irrelevant)
> or emotional arguments (fuck Poettering) or either ends up in Godwin's
> Law. The end of the story is that nobody wins.
>
> > If Debian hadn't started, 22 years ago, as a "NeverHeardOf" operating
> > system, today you would not have the problem of migrating hundred of
> > servers from Debian...
>
> It will take a long time before Devuan deserves and gets the credits
> necessary for corporate use. How many people work on Devuan? How many
> people work on Debian? The difference is huge at the moment. Maybe
> Devuan will be the biggest distro in 5 years. Maybe Devuan will be
> burried in five years. Noone knows.

There are many Debian developers who maintain packages that have
nothing to do with systemd, and who do not entangle their packages with
systemd. They may not be working for systemd specifically, but they
can indded be considered to be working to our benefit. I'm sure they
are aware that their work is used by many, many Debian derivatives.

Without them, out project would be doomed.

-- hendrik