On Fri, 29 Jan 2016 12:46:20 +0000
KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:

> And what is exactly your plan to have Devuan somehow merged "into
> Debian", given that any attempt to criticise, even in a constructive
> manner, any systemd-related stuff is immediately labelled as
> "trolling" in debian-user (just to make an example)?

That is why I mentioned "silent diplomacy". It makes no sense to start
a flame war on a list populated by a "systemd <on|off>" crowd. I have
nothing against systemd, if someone wants to use it, it's ok for me.
There is more than <on|off>. That's all I want to say.

> What is the choice offered by Debian once they have decided that
> systemd has to be a not-unpluggable component of a Debian system?

For the moment I'm still able to run Debian systemd free, apart from
libsystemd0. And unfortunately I am not able to predict the future of
Debian, nor the future of systemd.

> How could we dream of having a systemd-free Debian if the only
> alternative offered by Debian, and accepted by the TC, is
> systemd-o-la-muerte?

Silent diplomacy is the keyword IMHO. The only argument is "freedom of
choice". The problem is that such a discussion often ends up
technical arguments against <any init system> (which is irrelevant)
or emotional arguments (fuck Poettering) or either ends up in Godwin's
Law. The end of the story is that nobody wins.

> If Debian hadn't started, 22 years ago, as a "NeverHeardOf" operating
> system, today you would not have the problem of migrating hundred of
> servers from Debian...

It will take a long time before Devuan deserves and gets the credits
necessary for corporate use. How many people work on Devuan? How many
people work on Debian? The difference is huge at the moment. Maybe
Devuan will be the biggest distro in 5 years. Maybe Devuan will be
burried in five years. Noone knows.

The only way to win something is to talk Freedom Of Choice Language,
not systemd bashing. Systemd is there, accept that it exists. Maybe
within a short time there will be a zero day vulnerabilty in systemd and
half the internet gets exploited and systemd will melt down by it's own
structure. I have no idea. I'll tell you in five years from now.

R.

--
richard lucassen
http://contact.xaq.nl/