Robert Storey <robert.storey@???> wrote:

> So maybe I should ask: Have you tried installing Linux on your MacBook? If so, how was the experience? Any advice about that? Any nonsense to deal with similar to Microsoft's "secure boot"? (if you answered those questions already in another post, I"m sorry, I missed it).
>
> Anyway, expensive though it might be, I'd consider a MacBook in the future, especially if I could dual-boot it with Linux.
I last tried native Linux back in the G4 MacBook days - I can't say I've tried it lately. For Linux and Windows, I either remotely access a server, or I run a VM (I use parallels, other virt options available). Biggest problem I have is that my current machine (Mid 2008*) is maxed out at 8G RAM and that just isn't enough - I can get to 4 or 5G swap space used 8-O I really need a newer one but usual problem - no money !

I still have my previous model, I suppose I ought to try a native install on it - and perhaps see if I can get OS X running as a VM.

* Yes, the one with the faulty SATA that doesn't like 3gbps drives - you try finding a drive these days that has a jumper for 1.5gbps operation :-(


TBH, I'm one of a growing band who's used Apple stuff for <cough> decades (before Mac), but getting increasingly "irritated" by their move to ever more closed systems - not to mention their tendency to drop stuff with little fanfare if they think it's of benefit to them. E.g., in 10.9 they dropped Sync Services in favour of "you *WILL* sync your i[Phone|Pod|Pad] via our cloud" (rather than just plugging in a USB cable). That backfired, and enough iThing users kicked up enough fuss that they actually backtracked and re-instated the service. Unfortunately, they only re-instated what they needed for the iThings, not the whole service so 3rd party software that relies on it (like the Missing Sync I use for my Android phone) is broken after 10.8.

So I have been seriously considering whether "some other make" of hardware, running Linux native, and OS X in a VM might be better. But comparing real specs, the hardware isn't that much cheaper - and I don't have the cash nor the time to do it. In reality, comparing actual specs, I don't think their hardware is all that pricey - it's more that they don't do "cheap, low spec" machines which is what many people compare with.
AFAIK they don't provide Linux drivers (but I suspect they don't need to), but for those wanting to run Windows, there's a utility to generate a Windows driver disk for the machine. So they aren't really that closed in terms of what they'll let you run.

My biggest beef is their "closed maintenance" attitude. They only sell spares to authorised service centres, and they impose a "no resale" condition to stop those service centres selling on new parts - that wasn't too bad back in the days when I part owned a dealership and our margins off list price was 32% :-), sucks now I'm an end user :-(. Not too bad if you have an older model - then there's usually supplies of cannibalised spares available.



Edward Bartolo <edbarx@???> wrote:

> The purpose of this mail thread is to stimulate discussion about the
> subject, as it is becoming increasingly harder to purchase Linux
> friendly hardware. I don't know whether the following is paranoia or
> fact, but I get an uncomfortable itch when I enter a shop boasting of
> having a Microsoft deal or anything similar.
>
> I think, the time has come for Linux users to unite, so that as a
> group, they would seek some form of aggreement with hardware
> manufactures, so that their OS, would not be erased from existence by
> virtue of having no one producing Linux friendly hardware.

"no one" is a bit wide of the mark. One thing I have noticed lately is that there is far wider availability of cross-platform drivers for stuff. While once over you'd find that the vast majority of hardware would have "support for all OSs" which actually means all versions of Windows from 95 to whatever is current for the day, I've noticed over the last few years that more and more manufacturers have Mac (OS X) and/or Linux support.

IMO the only way to ensure continued support for non-Windows OSs is to support those who provide it, and query those who don't. As long as there is a market, then manufacturers will support it - as long as they know it's there. So perhaps if people actually sent feedback to manufacturers along the lines of "thank you for supporting Linux, I bought your ${product} because of this" or "I was considering ${product} but as you don't support Linux I bought something else" it might influence their priorities.

Going up against MS is a non-starter. If it's a choice between selling (being generous) another 1% though Linux support, or losing some more significant amount of "marketing support" by not toeing the line with MS - that's a no brainer for any business.

As to getting all Linux users to unite, ha, fat chance ! We can't even (dons fire suit and ducks) unite around one init system ;-)

There is no such "group" as "Linux users", just like there is no such group as "drivers", at least in terms of defining a group with some form of common purpose. Just like "drivers", there are those for whom the activity is an end in itself, and they scorn those at the other extreme where "driving" is merely an activity to get from A to B and to be done with as little pain as possible" - and of course, various categories in between.