A lot of what you say sums up my feelings about systemd and microsoft. When these things had happened what was of the gnu/linux community practically all rejected anything that smells like microsoft, and it was necessary to do that imo (just as some zeal is necessary now for other inits to survive). We know what to expect from microsoft for the most part, so giving them a pass for "normal business practises" I don't think is sensible and might even be naive for many with the same experiences. Being fully about selling proprietary software, and the other problems the OS presents I can't give them a pass for anything as it gives others the wrong impression about free software/open source values. These are learned values and I'm not sure the time is right to unchange them, if microsoft GPL's their entire OS and stops all bad business practises then sure, but it would be naive for anyone with these experiences to expect that there is no FUD or bad motivations there. It also makes me wond
er what will happen with debian now that microsoft apparently loves them. If people don't think the systemd culture emerging is not elitist, zealous, or cultish.. better to take a look at how they try to stop others from making a choice other than the software they produce. It's their way or the high way.

On Friday, January 22, 2016 12:33 AM, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:08:19 +0000
> Simon Hobson <linux@???> wrote:
>
>> reading this list is like being at an evangelical meeting of some
>> hardcore cult - and that *IS* very off-putting to a large number of
>> people.
>
> Both clauses of the preceding partial sentence are absolutely true. And
> it goes without saying that I am a minor priest in this cult.
>
> Here's the thing though: If you say in public that you don't use
> systemd, that's offputting to 1/3 of the Linux population. A very vocal
> and judgmental 1/3. If you actively participate in any plan to provide
> an alternative to systemd, you've now offput 2/3 of the Linux
> population, and are going to get your name constantly dragged through
> the mud.
>
> So the Devuan project has already offput 2/3 of the Linux population.
> And although I cannot provide any backup for this opinion, it's my
> opinion that most fans of corporate Linux are in the 2/3 we already
> offput, and very few real fans of corporate Linux remain in the 1/3 not
> yet offput.
>
> So there are few left in our membership and prospective membership who
> would be offput by anti-Microsoft assertions.
>
> Meanwhile, the fact that we're Linux at all skews us to have long ago
> blown off the Microsoft fans, and makes it likely that a sizeable
> portion of us have very anti-Microsoft opinions, especially those who
> have been in Linux long enough to remember the Halloween Documents,
> Microsoft's Halloween Code, Microsoft execs Mundie and Allchin's whines
> to congress to make GPL illegal, and Microsoft's generous license fees
> paid to Linux patent troll SCO, which enabled SCO to randomly sue Linux
> users for several more years.
>
> Bottom line, we long ago blew off most of those who would have found
> our, or at least my, way of phrasing things offputting.
>
> We all hope there will come a time when Devuan becomes a plurality
> force in the world of Linux. Such an eventuality is no less probable
> than was Linux's takeover of everything but the desktop, if that
> probability were predicted in the 1990's. And if you look at Linux
> promotion in the 1990's, it was very cultish within, and very
> offputting to fans of corporate computing or even those who believed
> technology choice to be a meritocracy.
>
> And when Devuan becomes such a plurality, having won the war for the
> hearts and minds of those having strong believes concerning software
> choice and modularity, we'll tone down our rhetoric to become more
> inclusive of meritocracy believers and all but the most hard-core
> corporatists. But it's too early for that now: Right now our job is to
> inspire strong beliefs leading to strong development, testing,
> documentation and advocacy, and an absolute and constitutional
> rejection of systemd.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/28
>
>
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