On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 09:09:28 +0000
KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 02, 2016 at 01:11:07PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:08:37 +0000
> > KatolaZ <katolaz@???> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > If your root fs does not change every five minutes, you can have a
> > > custom kernel with ext4 and a few other drivers compiled in, and
> > > get rid of initramfs altogether. Then, the usage that has been
> > > done of initramfs in the last few years is just an overkill,
> > > IMHO.
> >
> > This was exactly my point. Why can't Devuan put the ext4 kernel
> > module and the few other drivers for ext4, on directories directly
> > off the root partition, plus the stub of an rc file to bring the
> > thing to the mounted state. This would make Devuan the only distro
> > giving the user an easy choice of initramfs or not.
> >
>
> Steve,
>
> just because not everybody wants to use ext4, not everybody has the
> same disc controller, not everybody has the same configuration of
> raid/lvm/whatever.

Let me repeat myself. I think it would be an excellent idea for Debian
to offer, not to require, as an option, not as the default, an easy way
of booting sans-initramfs for very simple ext4 configs with no LVM or
Raid or LUKS on the root partition.

Not for everybody, not for every setup, just for this one fairly simple
and fairly common one.

> Again, the installer of a distro should be able to
> install on *any* supported hw/sw configuration. There are basically
> two ways to do so:
>
> 1) build and ship a kernel with everything compiled-in, which might
> not be any more a viable option, since it would be impossible in some
> cases to load the full image into RAM at boot time;

Obviously the preceding is not going to be done.

>
> 2) use an initrd/initramfs with all the potentially useful modules,
> and let the kernel figure out which of them have to be loaded during
> boot, which is what happens now.

The preceding is what I envision continues to be the default way of
booting, and I also hope that the initramfs is kept as simple as
humanly possible, with only the complexity needed to mount / and
maybe /usr.

But there's a third option, that could be offered as a non-default
choice:

3) Compile ext4 and only the most common hard drive and SSD drivers
into a separate and optional kernel that doesn't call an
initramfs, but merely runs an rc file as an init. That rc file
does nothing but get all the drives mounted and then exec the
normal init (sysvinit).

Repeating: This would be an option, not the default. It would be
optional, not required. It would work only with ext4 and the very most
common hardware drivers.

The cost of this would be more work for the Devuan developers. The
benefits would be:

1) Simpler, more transparent startup for setups that qualify.

2) Very good educationally, because adding initramfs to the mix really
complicates matters while trying to learn the rudiments of bootup.

3) Publicity. AFAIK, Devuan would be the only major distro to offer
this option.

Let me repeat just one more time: I mention this as a non-default
option for the simplest of ext4 setups.

If anyone wants to debate me about this, please read the preceding
sentence, so at least you're debating a position I really took.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt
January 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28