On 19/12/15 11:28, Rowland Penny wrote:
> On 19/12/15 10:21, John Hughes wrote:
>> On 18/12/15 19:40, Steve Litt wrote:
>>
>>
>>> most of [ JH's posts ] tended to say "libsystemd0 isn't that bad",
>>
>> I don't think it's that bad, and, despite my asking nobody can tell
>> me why it is.
>
> I will give you a good reason why systemd is bad, if you try to remove
> it from debian, it also removes your desktop etc.

Are you talking about libsystemd0? Because it's not true that removing
systemd from Debian will remove your desktop. If you are talking about
libsystemd0 why do you want to remove it? All I see are circular
arguments -- "libsystemd0" is bad because removing it breaks things, so
we must remove it.

>
>>
>> I decided to post to the list because it seems to me that you're all
>> fiddling around with cosmetic parts of the problem (remove
>> libsystemd0, replace udev and so on) while ignoring the huge steaming
>> elephant turd in the middle of the room -- logind.
>>
>> Without a functional replacement for logind then Devuan is doomed.
>
> Why?, Linux worked very well before 'logind' appeared.
>

Maybe, but it doesn't now, so either you stick to wheezy or you fix the
problem. Ignoring it won't make it go away.