Hi all,

This thread is long... I've been busy these last days, and i need some
time to read it carefully.

There are interesting points of view.

Aitor.

On 11/13/2015 01:00 PM, Simon Hobson <linux@???> wrote:
> Mitt Green<mitt_green@???> wrote:
>
>> >I mean, that's something normal, neither years in the field
>> >nor degree won't make you smart and experienced
>> >(years are not equal to experience) alone, something
>> >has to be inside your skull.
> That echoes something I wrote off-list to the OP.
>
> Having a degree is good because a lot of large employers require it, and many other employers/HR agencies use it as a filter. Doesn't have to be a computer related one - mine is in Engineering and it's amazing how many engineering students don't go into engineering after graduation by choice, it's taken by many employers as a good grounding for many other jobs.
>
> I do feel that a "good" basic education in "computer science" (whatever it's called) is good. Having a good understanding of the fundamentals means you can pick up and learn whatever language du jour/passing fad is. If you only ever learned about data storage, sorting, and so on from the perspective of a single high level language, then that may make it difficult to grasp other languages (depending on their nature of course) - the old "if all you have is a hammer, then every problem is a nail" issue. That doesn't mean you have to be proficient with pliers and screwdrivers - but if you at least know how to recognise when a hammer isn't the right tool then you are half way to a decent job.
>
> But after that, nothing beats experience.
> I was lucky in that apart from when I was leaving school, I've never had to compete to get any of my jobs. I started as a junior design engineer in a local (large, very large) engineering firm, left to set up in business with some friends as the local Apple dealer), found out the hard way that we had "more enthusiasm than business acumen", started a smaller general computer business with one of them, then one day I walked into the MDs office of one of our large customers and asked if there was any chance of a full time job. I was there for 10 years - primarily IT (in a department of 3 1/2 people), but dealing with just about anything that used electricity.
> When that business got driven down the plughole by the beancounters who took over, I was one of the many that "left" - at the time it was very painful, but in hindsight it was good for me. I went to see the same person (who had been forced out years earlier and how had fingers in many local businesses) and before I'd even asked, he'd outlined 3 possibilities. He more or less put me where I am now (general IT/Internet/small hosting company), and I've been here 10 years.
> So those two jobs came about because I asked for them, and the person i asked knew that I could turn my hand to many things. Sadly he died in an airplane accident some years ago.
>
> But you have to get that experience first. that may mean taking any job you can get at first. Any junior admin, helldesk, developer, whatever job will get you onto the bottom rung. Take the opportunity to look around and see what different people do - your first choice of career may not actually be what you want. There is no such thing as "IT" - it's a very wide field with many different roles.
>
> Watch people closely. Tend to stay away from the brash loudmouths, watch the quieter ones who just get one with stuff (and are probably moaning about fixing the sh*t left by the loudmouths) as they are probably the more professional ones. Take time to talk to people about what they do, why, what's good and what isn't.
>
> And when you make a cockup - as you will, more than once - don't just shrug it off, look at what went wrong, why, and how you can avoid it again. If you have decent colleagues, then they'll be supportive if you're open about asking for advice and it will improve your reputation with them. Sadly, you will also find environments where openly admitted ot having made a mistake will be used against you - if you find yourself in one of these, then the best advice I can give is to get out as soon as you can as these are toxic and don't promote learning or good practice. In that vein, if you are a witness to someone else making a cockup - don't hold it against them (unless they really were stupid and don't want to learn from it) - but use the same process - what went wrong and what can you learn from it.
>
> Lastly - get your daily Dilbert !http://dilbert.com