On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 01:54:37PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:57:19 +0300
> Mitt Green <mitt_green@???> wrote:
>
> > ‎I wonder how many people that use Debian for quite long time (since
> > 90s or the beginning of this millennium) really like systemd, GNOME3
> > and all these controversial things. I haven't met any. And even more,
> > most "greybeards" that I've seen oppose it. Seems like they don't have
> > a right to vote.
>
> :s/greybeards/experienced people having a clue/
>
> I'm not saying the following in anger. I'm simply saying it so we don't
> accidentally shoot ourselves in the foot...
>
> "Greybeards" and "neckbeards" are characterizations whose connotation
> is deliberately "people stuck in their ways, afraid of change, no
> longer relevant, no longer innovating." This has *especially* come to
> the forefront during the systemd foolishness.
>
> Additionally, "greybeards" and "neckbeards" pretty much literally mean
> "old people", and give credence to the belief that old people can't
> code, can't tech, should be put out to pasture. It's this very belief
> that motivates organizations to refuse to hire those over 50,
> regardless of past or current accomplishments, going so far as to pay a
> premium to offshore rent-a-programmers rather than snagging one of the
> glut of skilled over 50 technologists.
>
> We should leave words like "greybeard", "neckbeard", and "afraid of
> change" to the debian-user mailing list.
>
> Last but not least: The first body text currently on http://devuan.org
> says:
>
> "Dear Init Freedom lovers, the Veteran Unix Admin collective salutes
> you!"
>
> THAT'S how experience is best portrayed.

there's also a tradition, centuries old, that an oppressed people take
the insulting names that the oppressors call them and use them as marks
of pride, but the oppressed use those names to rally around when
creating a protest movement, sonetimes successful, sometimes not.

I donn't mind being a greybeard, by the way. I was impressed by the
powerful aged, greybearded sorcerers in the fantasy literature I read in
the 50's. I too am one now. Well, it's slowly turning white from grey.
Occasionally near Christmastime litle children recognise me as Pere
Noel.

-- hendrik