Optimal morality, the sharp division of good and evil, the "perpetual
motion" of philosophy. There's nothing more ideological than the idea of a
perfect ideology. Humans have individual and collective interests that are
in permanent conflict, therefore there will never be a single way
of empirically classifying belief systems by how good or bad they're. The
amount of confirmation bias present in religious people is measured by
their proselytism.

2015-09-08 16:21 GMT+02:00 Jonathan Valiente <tinkeringengr@???>:

> Hello Arturo,
>
> Pardon my interjection, but perhaps you will appreciate my perspective --
> regardless, it is a duty to provide pertinent information to those around
> you.
>
> I applaud the efforts of the anarcho-libertarian-crypto-paranoia
> community, but I find the problems that beset our global society are moral
> and not technological.
>
> I would make the argument that technology is amoral. We choose how to
> apply technology, for great good or great evil. Therefore, the efforts of
> humanity should be directed towards the moral behavior of people in systems
> of interaction.
>
> Such a direction yields less utopian outcomes. For each actor is free to
> choose in what manner they use their time on this earth. And inasmuch as
> limited-humans can define an optimal morality in which we should all
> subscribe, it is still up to individuals to accept or reject.
>
> I sympathize with the champions of technological leverage. Perhaps the
> train of thought goes, if only we create systems that subvert the status
> quo, we no longer need to participate in the corrupt systems we’ve
> inherited. While I very much desire such a thing/place, I still find
> reservations in that it doesn’t address the moral issue at hand. So long as
> morality is not adequately addressed, any revolution of any kind will be
> subject to the incessant decay of human nature. You could suggest
> theoretical proofs of safeguards and divisions of power, but given time,
> corruption seems to be an innate historical fact. Maybe with more intellect
> we will solve such issues?...I am doubtful because I don’t think intellect
> is the ‘thing’ that will solve our issues -- even a supremely ignorant
> person can share his/her resources while a sophisticated expert may be less
> inclined.
>
> Are humans self-aware to see outside the inherited culture and scientific
> understanding of the time to properly define what a corrupt individual is?
> I think not. Attempts at incorruptible systems are admirable, but I
> consider the human condition to be far too limiting.
>
> So by what basis or perspective do I claim all (myself included) humans to
> be ignorant, uneducated, and supremely limited? I suppose my belief in
> higher levels of organization unknown to the world at large i.e. God the
> Creator. You could attach the entirety of presumptions when it comes to
> such a volatile statement, but I would hope the rigorous intellectual could
> entertain the thought without subjecting me to the same ideological box of
> others who claim to speak with the authority of God.
>
> I believe the optimal morality has been defined by Jesus Christ. I believe
> that what we see is *not* what we get as history so clearly displays --
> and while some may consider our little speck of dust floating in the cosmos
> to be the entirety of human experience, I consider it to be the training
> ground for guiding corrupt beings towards incorruption. I believe
> knowledge of such things comes from the spiritual dimension, to any
> individual humble and willing to submit to the will of God.
>
> I am here to tell you that the *only true authority of God* has been
> restored to this earth in this critical time to prepare for the Second
> Coming of Jesus Christ and that God does indeed commune with mankind via
> the mechanism of sincere prayer. I believe these things to be a reality.
>
> Let us not use the logic of men to understand such grand concepts, for we
> know from Kurt Gödel the limitations of logical systems. We also know If
> we were born in ancient Greece we would reason with the framework of
> understanding of the time e.g. the earth is composed of 4 elements: earth,
> fire, wind, water. In current times we will reason according to the modern
> framework of understanding, still limited nonetheless. Unfortunately it is
> an impossibility for you to checksum the integrity of this message. All I
> can do is encourage you to ask the appropriate questions and to *seek
> knowledge from the spiritual dimension* with the aid of the current
> prophet of God (Thomas Monson) and the Book Of Mormon which is a second
> witness of Jesus Christ and supports the Bible -- It clarifies many of the
> adulterations found therein. Knock and it shall be opened, seek and ye
> shall find. Best wishes.
>
> I apologize if my line of reasoning appears simplistic. I chose to be
> concise over verbose.
> https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Arturo Filastò <arturo@???> wrote:
>
>> I apologise in advance if what I talk about may appear to be a little be
>> off topic, but by reading this thread and in particular the words of
>> Jaromil and Amir I believe this is fertile ground in which to express some
>> of my ideas.
>>
>> The more time goes by the more disillusioned I become about some aspects
>> of these so called “movements” close to the
>> anarcho-libertarian-crypto-paranoia sub-system.
>> What actually worries me much more than all of our communications being
>> intercepted and who we speak to known to people we would like to conceal
>> this from is that once we have The Perfect end-to-end encrypted,
>> decentralised, distributed, privacy preserving communication tool that
>> everybody in the world uses, we actually don’t have anything meaningful to
>> say over it.
>> What use is crypto and these tools to us if we don’t have an idea or a
>> plan as to what we should do with it?
>>
>> I see this brainwashing being particularly prevalent in the Berlin scene
>> and it makes me sick and that is one of the reasons why some years ago I
>> fled the city promising to never live here again.
>>
>> The other aspect is that I sometimes have some serious problems
>> understanding what are the motivations and the ideals underpinning the
>> behaviours of certain people in this realm and have been stung by this in
>> the past. Said differently it doesn’t mean that if two people are
>> interested in doing the same thing, they are both doing it for the same
>> reason. The reason, in my opinion, is actually the most important thing and
>> agree on what to do is just not enough, we should also agree on WHY we do
>> it.
>>
>> This lack of vision and common shared objective makes me often doubt if I
>> should continue focussing on what it is I am focussing on and if I should
>> instead move to tackle other more important and relevant problems.
>> The times I have stopped a moment to look around and listen to what the
>> earth is telling us I realise that surveillance and technological control
>> is only just a small piece of this puzzle. If we continue in what we are
>> doing, in not too long we will completely fuck ourselves. We have actually
>> already fucked ourselves, the club of Rome warned us of this already in
>> 1972, but nobody listened to their warning that if nothing were to be done
>> there would not be any turning back. We are now too late. We are fucked.
>> All we can do is extend our the lifetime of humanity, but what has been
>> done is the last century is now IRREVERSIBLE.
>>
>> Going back to the main topic in question I have a hard time understanding
>> why certain people are doing what they do. To make an example I don’t
>> understand why Cody Wilson is so much into this idea of making guns. What
>> is the vision there? What is the end goal?
>> Is it really necessary to fuck up a beautiful technology such as 3d
>> printing to make a political statement? In a way it’s as if somebody were
>> to publish schemes on how to use enzymes to build a bioweapon, hence
>> realising the threat that people proposing more regulation on biohacking
>> are using to justify it.
>> Groups in the past have overthrown their own government without the need
>> of 3d printed guns and let’s be frank you are not going to supply an army
>> with plastic guns and expect them to have a chance against the US
>> government. I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy it.
>>
>> Again I am sorry if this is a long off-topic rant, but I wanted to get
>> these things off my chest and I hope that somebody here can in some way
>> relate to it. Some of the people I have spoken to about ideas have not
>> given the importance I believe this problem deserves and I believe this is
>> caused by the anarcho-libertarian-crypto-paranoia sect brainwashing that I
>> see going on all around me.
>>
>> ~ Arturo
>>
>>
>>
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