Unfortunately eavesdropping is the only way to enforce intellectual
property rights, how else will you protect your property from being shared
without your consent? And I mean in practice, because what will you do in a
court if you have no proof that your property was shared?

2015-09-07 20:14 GMT+02:00 Otto Meier <ottomeier95@???>:

>
> Mr. X listening to a private communication in which intellectual property
> (“Happy B’day”) is exchanged is not enforcing intellectual property rights,
> that’s eavesdropping (secretly listen to a conversation), a violation of
> my privacy, depending on where you live. Going to court is (peacefully)
> enforcing your rights e.g. on intellectual property with all its
> difficulties.
>
>
>
> On 07.09.2015, at 18:38, Pablo <pablovidal85@???> wrote:
>
> Call it whatever you are more confortable with, but if you cannot deprive
> anybody from it, is not your private property. It may be your shared
> property with the receiver, until the receiver shares it with somebody
> else. Mr X listening to communications is something I would expect in a
> state where intellectual property rights exist, you know, contractual
> obligations have to be enforced.
>
> 2015-09-07 16:27 GMT+02:00 Otto Meier <ottomeier95@???>:
>
>> Beg to differ.
>>
>> If A says to B “Happy Birthday”. What B does with it later on, e.g.
>> telling C, hey A called and said “H.. …” is his thing. Mr. X listening,
>> before B talks, doesn’t deserve respect.
>>
>> What happens if A says to B “Happy Birthday but don’t tell anyone”? B
>> might or not talk. Mr. X listening, before B talks, doesn’t deserve respect.
>>
>> Or, if A contacts B and asks “I would like to share some Info with you
>> but only when you do not share it with anyone else, do you agree?”. B
>> agrees. Mr. X listening all the way doesn’t deserve respect.
>>
>> If one puts communication/information in a contractual context
>> information stays private property without massive surveillance systems,
>> its a kind of non disclosure agreement. Of course if you don’t trust B
>> serving the contract you get paranoid and become Mr. X listening to all and
>> everything.
>>
>>
>> The very definition of communication goes against the concept of private
>> property, once you share the information you lost the capacity of depriving
>> the rest of the world of it. What strong encryption provides is just
>> secured communication channels and that's about it. I find people who
>> supports intellectual property and privacy rights at the same time amusing,
>> because you know, the only way we have to enforce property rights on
>> information is precisely having full control of it, using massive
>> surveillance systems.
>>
>> 2015-09-07 8:44 GMT+02:00 Otto Meier <ottomeier95@???>:
>>
>>> Why: What I say to someone else is my property I decide with whom to
>>> share it. Its my decision. Its a principle. It doesn’t matter what it is, a
>>> subversive comment or a Happy Birthday note. I do not want anyone else to
>>> read it! Whoever doesn’t respect that doesn’t deserve my respect...
>>>
>>> "communications being intercepted and who we speak to known to people we
>>> would like to conceal this from is that once we have The Perfect end-to-end
>>> encrypted, decentralised, distributed, privacy preserving communication
>>> tool that everybody in the world uses, we actually don’t have anything
>>> meaningful to say over it."
>>>
>>> Dude, there has been a constant in history which is that most people
>>> don't have anything meaningful to say in any medium. Let the general
>>> populace cannibalize themselves, that's their choice, but those who are
>>> actually alive need a way to communicate without prosecution. Stop worrying
>>> about everyone else and focus on the things that you as an individual find
>>> important. Similar individuals who share a vision will be drawn together.
>>> It's never been about saving the world and it never will be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What one finds worthless might for someone else something...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2015 3:21 PM, "Arturo Filastò" <arturo@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I apologise in advance if what I talk about may appear to be a little
>>>> be off topic, but by reading this thread and in particular the words of
>>>> Jaromil and Amir I believe this is fertile ground in which to express some
>>>> of my ideas.
>>>>
>>>> The more time goes by the more disillusioned I become about some
>>>> aspects of these so called “movements” close to the
>>>> anarcho-libertarian-crypto-paranoia sub-system.
>>>> What actually worries me much more than all of our communications being
>>>> intercepted and who we speak to known to people we would like to conceal
>>>> this from is that once we have The Perfect end-to-end encrypted,
>>>> decentralised, distributed, privacy preserving communication tool that
>>>> everybody in the world uses, we actually don’t have anything meaningful to
>>>> say over it.
>>>> What use is crypto and these tools to us if we don’t have an idea or a
>>>> plan as to what we should do with it?
>>>>
>>>> I see this brainwashing being particularly prevalent in the Berlin
>>>> scene and it makes me sick and that is one of the reasons why some years
>>>> ago I fled the city promising to never live here again.
>>>>
>>>> The other aspect is that I sometimes have some serious problems
>>>> understanding what are the motivations and the ideals underpinning the
>>>> behaviours of certain people in this realm and have been stung by this in
>>>> the past. Said differently it doesn’t mean that if two people are
>>>> interested in doing the same thing, they are both doing it for the same
>>>> reason. The reason, in my opinion, is actually the most important thing and
>>>> agree on what to do is just not enough, we should also agree on WHY we do
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> This lack of vision and common shared objective makes me often doubt if
>>>> I should continue focussing on what it is I am focussing on and if I should
>>>> instead move to tackle other more important and relevant problems.
>>>> The times I have stopped a moment to look around and listen to what the
>>>> earth is telling us I realise that surveillance and technological control
>>>> is only just a small piece of this puzzle. If we continue in what we are
>>>> doing, in not too long we will completely fuck ourselves. We have actually
>>>> already fucked ourselves, the club of Rome warned us of this already in
>>>> 1972, but nobody listened to their warning that if nothing were to be done
>>>> there would not be any turning back. We are now too late. We are fucked.
>>>> All we can do is extend our the lifetime of humanity, but what has been
>>>> done is the last century is now IRREVERSIBLE.
>>>>
>>>> Going back to the main topic in question I have a hard time
>>>> understanding why certain people are doing what they do. To make an example
>>>> I don’t understand why Cody Wilson is so much into this idea of making
>>>> guns. What is the vision there? What is the end goal?
>>>> Is it really necessary to fuck up a beautiful technology such as 3d
>>>> printing to make a political statement? In a way it’s as if somebody were
>>>> to publish schemes on how to use enzymes to build a bioweapon, hence
>>>> realising the threat that people proposing more regulation on biohacking
>>>> are using to justify it.
>>>> Groups in the past have overthrown their own government without the
>>>> need of 3d printed guns and let’s be frank you are not going to supply an
>>>> army with plastic guns and expect them to have a chance against the US
>>>> government. I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy it.
>>>>
>>>> Again I am sorry if this is a long off-topic rant, but I wanted to get
>>>> these things off my chest and I hope that somebody here can in some way
>>>> relate to it. Some of the people I have spoken to about ideas have not
>>>> given the importance I believe this problem deserves and I believe this is
>>>> caused by the anarcho-libertarian-crypto-paranoia sect brainwashing that I
>>>> see going on all around me.
>>>>
>>>> ~ Arturo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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