On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 12:13:43AM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:

[cut]

>
> > Right now with Debian Jessie systemd must be installed to make the
> > desktop anywhere near functional, but that is a result of packaging
> > decisions by Debian ...
>
> I don't think it's so much a packaging decision by Debian, more a case of what the upstream devs have done. The Debian decision was (AIUI) "we don't have the resources to remove the crap" - not a decision to add it, just a realisation that the project couldn't remove it with the time and resources available.

I'm sorry but it does not seem to me that the story went like you
say. Debian deliberately decided to go for systemd, at a time when no
tight systemd dependency existed anywhere in Debian. Please do not
forget that the first versions of jessie (testing) were still using
sysvinit by default, and none of the packages required systemd to be
there.

AFAIR there was no mention about the amount of resources needed to
"remove the crap" as you say. There were instead specific and
identifiable responsabilities by the Debian Project Leader and by the
Technical Committee, who decided to ignore all the pressures to stay
with sysvinit that came from the userbase and from the
developers. Those decisions were not made on the basis of the amount
of work needed to contain systemd (which became really a problem
*after* Debian chose it as a default), but following an unspecified
"need" to go for the best technical solution available on the market.

Once systemd was declared the standard in Debian, packagers had to
adapt to the new riff and to go all-in in supporting systemd. Those
who didn't like it, resigned and moved elsewhere.

The present is crap and the future is foggy, so there is no reason at
all to mess up with the past as well...

HND

KatolaZ

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[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
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