On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 10:17:05PM +0200, Anto wrote:
>
> On 23/08/15 20:34, Adam Borowski wrote:
> >Today on #debconf:
> >
> >20:11 < paultag> devuan can pick a fight once they release
> >20:11 < paultag> Hell, they can pick a fight once they stop installing systemd by default
> >20:11 < paultag> which they still do
> >
> >Guys... _still_ installing systemd by default is pathethic. I provided a
> >set of desystemdized de-libsystemd0-ed packaged half a year ago (deb-src
> >http://angband.pl/debian nosystemd-{jessie,stretch}), and other than upower,
> >it was a matter of a bunch of trivial changes to debian/{control,rules,...}.
> >
> >The time frame becomes bad... you don't want to be laughed at, do you?
> >
>
> I felt like I was being laughed at some time ago, when I posted that
> I always re-compile the packages that I use to remove systemd unit
> files before I install those packages. I know that they are harmless
> if we installed them on non-systemd Linux. But it is a matter of
> principle to me that having those unit files on my PC means that I
> am still supporting systemd.
>
> It looks like that my principle is not in line with Devuan. I was
> quite pessimistic about Devuan after I found out that the principle
> of Devuan is to provide freedom of choice which includes the choice
> to support systemd. The sentence that I always remember is this one:
> [quote]*But if you want a system designed to be unable to run
> systemd, please leave us. This is not the place for such an
> anti-freedom POV.*[/quote], on https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20150505.165244.78917113.en.html.
>
> Someone kept confirming that Devuan will not support systemd. But it
> was confirmed as well that the option for Devuan to support systemd
> is still quite wide open if someone (I believe more accurate will be
> a company as big as RedHat) is willing to put the efforts to do
> that. And that will be accepted by Devuan as long as there is no
> hard dependency to all other packages. I think this is what keeps
> Devuan hoping to get the support on, so the option for that is kept
> opened even the chance is very low. This only creates confusions to
> Devuan users as there does not seem to be a clear direction where to
> go.
>
> I hope I really misunderstood all of that because if that would be
> true, I am quite sure people outside Devuan especially the systemd
> supporters will be laughing out loud at Devuan.

We are not there yet.

As I understand, our policy it this:

We intend that devuan will run withou systemd, and we are slowly
removing dependencies on systemd. We have already made sure we can run
with an init other than systemd.

We have limited manpower.

We are not going to waste time making sure no one can install systemd on
devuan.
We are not going to waste time making sure anyone can install systemd on
devuan.

-- hendrik