Well, I suppose the topic has been beat up enough, but I just wanted to clear
up something before moving on. I want you to understand why I came to the
Devuan list in the first place. I came here under the assumption that Devuan
was going to be a "better Debian" without the shove the Technical Committee
and the failure of the GR gave to one single point of view.

As far as I can tell, Devuan is about the same, with one difference. Devuan is
willing to package systemd if it can be done cleanly - but nobody wants to.
Debian will support System 5, again until nobody wants to.

I suppose I should be used to that. The fault is mine. I expect too much,
when everyone feels that they have been burned one too many times.

Nexttime: "Devuan will not work to support systemd and will not work against
it. We will not do any effort to support it, if someone want to work to package
it in a way where it works WITHOUT needs support for any other package
depending on it, we will consider to add it as an option, but we will NOT
accept it if it ask us to put it in dependency tree. "

That is all I EVER suggested, with one slight difference. That if it is
somehow possible in the future to maintain two versions of the same package
that the default version would be without systemd, but the other would be
available at the users' option as a matter of choice.

Steve Litt:

"Considering the source you're replying to, it's not worth even worrying
about.

The other side sure doesn't respect freedom of choice. That's why
we're here in the first place. Inclusion of systemd tends to reduce
freedom of choice, not enhance it. "

I am not on the "other side" of the argument. To me, there is no argument to
begin with. I am neither an advocate for systemd nor am I an advocate for
System 5. Both have issues and are basically different approaches to the same
problem.

That Steve objects to me personally - "the source" - is of course his own
affair and I can care less. In saying this it is not a condemnation of him. I
just do not want other people to think he knows what's on my mind. For the
record, he doesn't even know me.

Whatever his opinion of me, I respect his position just the same.



Didier Kryn:

"This has been discussed so many times already! It sitll has to be
proven that offering systemd is possible without abandoning freedom of
choice for many other things."

Honestly, Didier, I think it already has. Gentoo handles the situation very
well. It is possible, but it might require some tweaking to get the packages
right.

"Why should we bother when there's a simple way for Devuan to provide Systemd:
http-redirect -> www.debian.org"

I'm not accusing anyone of anything but I genuinely I do not understand that.
Since the tone of Nexttime's post suggests that he/she would prefer that this
discussion end, please message me privately if you have something to add. I
don't understand how Devuan can grow if the general attitude on the mailing
list is "go away."



Have a great day everyone! (Yes both Steve and Didlier too!)

T. J.