My $0.02...

Shims are not needed, or, in my viewpoint, wanted. You're still working with systemd or pseudo-systemd and either way you see it, it's still systemd. While the prospect of systemd-shim does allow to separate the API layer and logind out from the core project, as uselessd allowed the systemd-init to be separated out, it's still working with systemd, and systemd is still required to build it, the shim, from source. The only shim that doesn't require systemd is loginkit and that project hasn't really done much, no offensive meant.

To me, a shim is not the way. Sanitization is what is needed, and if that requires work, then question this, 'Will the work be worth it?' and to me the answer is a definable 'yes'.

If this is going to be System V based GNU/Linux, then why is there talk of systemd? System V GNU/Linux is not systemd GNU/Linux.

Not to push a button, but I think Funtoo had the right mindset about systemd 'No way or chance in Hell'.

-Jim
________________________________
From: Didier Kryn<mailto:kryn@in2p3.fr>
Sent: ‎8/‎14/‎2015 11:52 PM
To: dng@???<mailto:dng@lists.dyne.org>
Subject: Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims

Le 15/08/2015 02:26, Steve Litt a écrit :
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:49:17 -0700
> Go Linux <golinux@???> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 8/14/15, T.J. Duchene <t.j.duchene@???> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Re: [DNG] Systemd Shims
>> To: dng@???
>> Date: Friday, August 14, 2015, 2:47 PM
>>
>>> I know not everyone here agrees with me, especially Steve, and
>>> that's perfectly okay. I have no problem with that at all. I just
>>> don't see "System 5 pure" as realistic when planning ahead looking
>>> at a maintenance standpoint when Debuan upstream is more and more
>>> likely to stick with Systemd in designing their packaging.
>>>
>> Maybe we should just put Steve in charge of decontaminating all
>> packages with systemd deps!
> Oh, you wouldn't want to do that. Contrary to what I wrote in another
> thread about "the perfect is the enemy of the good", if *I* were in
> charge of decontamination, I'd throw out whole subsystems. Gnome gone.
> KDE gone. Xfce gone. Networkmanager gone. Gimp gone if it gets all
> systemd on us.
>
> In the massive time I save as not being the bomb squad defusing Red
> Hat's terrorism, I'd write small replacements for a lot of things that
> use only Linux and a very rudimentary and optional GUI interface.
>
> Then I'd write documentation explaining how to use a sharp thinking
> computer, to the proud ignorants of the world, especially those who
> believe their ignorance is a badge of honor proving their age or
> gender.
>
> And the people who prioritize pretty over functional and robust: I'd
> tell them to get a Mac.
>
> You don't want me in that capacity.
>
> And yes, I *am* a hypocrit who takes one position in one thread, and
> then says he'd do the opposite in another. :-)
>
> SteveT
>
>

     Please, Steve, provide us with all you mentionned, as an
alternative to mainstream bloated/infected stuff. Since Devuan is all
about freedom, this is the place where to deliver to the world. As soon
as I can install Devuan on metal, I'll be one of your testers.

     Didier

_______________________________________________
Dng mailing list
Dng@???
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng