:: Re: [DNG] Will there be a MirDevuan…
Etusivu
Poista viesti
Vastaa
Lähettäjä: miro.rovis
Päiväys:  
Vastaanottaja: dng
Aihe: Re: [DNG] Will there be a MirDevuan "WTF"?
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:50:44AM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote:
> >
> >
> > If I was able to understand correctly, vdev works with dbus.
>
>
> Vdev does not use dbus. No idea how or why you came to this conclusion.
> Search the code if you don't believe me.
>
> -Jude

I believe you. You never appeared dishonest to me. And I'm very glad
that I was wrong!

Whence I derived that wrong understanding? From having misundestood
something with the little time that I dedicated to reading about vdev
from the list or elsewhere. Sorry!

But Im very glad that I was wrong in that conjecture! Because that means
my dream may be feasible when vdev is ready for deployment!

Regarding Thorsten Glaser <tg@???>, I got it from reading
discussions on debian-devel list, e.g.:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00015.html

How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=116770&start=30#p552484

I got a "550 Unrouteable address" for it, as visibale in the attachment
(mirabilos-unroutable.eml). So don't know.

Really my dream a true foss Devuan. Cheers!
--
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
From @ Wed Jul 22 17:08:19 2015
Return-Path: <>
Received: from lin16.mojsite.com (178.218.164.164:993) by g0n.xdwgrp with
  IMAP4-SSL; 22 Jul 2015 15:08:19 -0000
Envelope-to: miro.rovis@???
Delivery-date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:44 +0200
Received: from smtp7.plusvps.com ([89.201.164.170]:46869)
    by lin16.mojsite.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256)
    (Exim 4.85)
    id 1ZHvBJ-00069a-Rc
    for miro.rovis@???; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:37 +0200
Received: from exim by smtp7.plusvps.com with local (Exim 4.84)
    id 1ZHvBJ-000FDh-Nq
    for miro.rovis@???; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:37 +0200
X-Failed-Recipients: tg@???
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon@???>
To: miro.rovis@???
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Message-Id: <E1ZHvBJ-000FDh-Nq@???>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:37 +0200
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-ID: 1ZHvBJ-00069a-Rc
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached,
    score=0.078, required 5, BAYES_00 -1.90, DSN_NO_MIMEVERSION 2.00,
    RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 -0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL -0.01,
    URIBL_BLOCKED 0.00)
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-From: 
X-Spam-Status: No
X-getmail-retrieved-from-mailbox: =?utf-8?q?INBOX?=
Status: RO
X-Status: F
Content-Length: 8693


This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  tg@???
    SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<tg@???>:
    host mailly.debian.org [82.195.75.114]: 550 Unrouteable address


------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

Return-path: <miro.rovis@???>
Received: from lin16.mojsite.com ([178.218.164.164])
    by smtp7.plusvps.com with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256)
    (Exim 4.84)
    (envelope-from <miro.rovis@???>)
    id 1ZHvBD-000FBy-EA
    for tg@???; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:31 +0200
Received: from 93-139-7-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr ([93.139.7.37]:59875 helo=g0n.localdomain)
    by lin16.mojsite.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256)
    (Exim 4.85)
    (envelope-from <miro.rovis@???>)
    id 1ZHvBC-00065X-LM; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:30 +0200
Received: by g0n.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000)
    id ED39638005A; Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:40:12 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:40:12 +0200
From: miro.rovis@???
To: dng@???
Cc: Thorsten Glaser <tg@???>
Subject: Will there be a MirDevuan "WTF"?
Message-ID: <20150722144012.GA6689@g0n>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
    protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AhhlLboLdkugWU4S"
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23+102 (2ca89bed6448) (2014-03-12)
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details, Found to be clean
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-SpamCheck: 
X-Spam-Status: No, No
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - lin16.mojsite.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debian.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - croatiafidelis.hr
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: lin16.mojsite.com: authenticated_id: miro.rovis@???
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-ID: 1ZHvBD-000FBy-EA
X-PlusHosting-MailScanner-From: miro.rovis@???



--AhhlLboLdkugWU4S
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Devuaners!

I wrote to this list before, a couple of times. As
miro.rovis@??? and miroslav.rovis1@???.

I'll start from here:

How to avoid stealth installation of systemd?
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3D20&t=3D116770&start=3D45#p552566
(
the encrypted channel not set up by user in every box with dbus; and give me
someone the reason that I ask there: "a completely truthful explanation[...=
],
publically, on why is this needed"
)

which is, in that long, and well read, counter-systemd article of mine in t=
he
form of a forum topic, a section about dbus.

I don't want dbus, and lots of other things, in my system.

Lots of things like someone much cleverer than me, in terms of computing, a
Debian developer, and the leader of MirBSD, advocates (and to whom a Cc:
goes), like he advocates against, in most practical terms, on the:

MirDebian "WTF" Repository
https://www.mirbsd.org/~tg/Debs/debidx.htm

I count dbus in poetterware-related, as it is a ware for the non-FOSS to dig
its tentacles deep into your systems, such as in the hooks prepared for them
by, among others, Linus himself.

[my title to it:] rootkit hooks in the kernel
http://www.crmbuyer.com/story/39565.html

and also see this non-exhaustive, practical list of widely used spy-tools, a
list practically compiled by true security experts, published so users can
learn to defend themselves):

Grsecurity/Appendix/Capability Names and Descriptions
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Grsecurity/Appendix/Capability_Names_and_Desc=
riptions

Having a system without systemd like Devuan already is, is great, but is no=
t a
complete solution for developing a free unsurveilled system if you keep dbus
in it. Not in my book! And not in many others' book.

My insisting on no-dbus has been looked favorably by wizards in Gentoo:

Uninstalling dbus adn *kits (to Unfacilitate Remote Seats)
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-992146.html

=2E I have, as far as a user lacking in really advanced expertize can do, an
almost perfectly sustainable system that is not easily intruded in, that do=
es
not get owned any more, and pranks on my Gentoo system are pretty much redu=
ced
to the outside only. And the same is attainable for any Gentoo user, because
Gentoo wizards care to make Gentoo packages available for dbus-free systems
like mine. As far as my user understanding goes, it's devs who are making it
happen.

Back to MirDebianWTF repo. I was, applying mirabilos' work on my sysvinit- =
and
non-systemd Debian, [I was] able to get a poetterware-free Debian back then:

Remove Systemd and Related Packages from Your Debian
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3D16&t=3D118197
(see the dates there)

Now...

If I was able to understand correctly, vdev works with dbus. Jude C. Nelson,
why are you basing it on such a corporate-intrusion-enabling software (or
harvesting/other-nefarious-purposes enabling software)? I remember having
read from you back quite a few months ago various articles when I was outra=
ged
at systemd imposition and was researching about it. I wouldn't have expected
you to not realize that dbus was a false-foss program... false for the true
sense of the nature of FOSS. But, maybe there's nothing to do now, I don't
know. I know I won't be using anything that requires dbus...

There was some talk of eudev on devuan mailing list, and people began to
implement it. Where is that now?

A digression. I follow mostly only Devuan mailing list, as best I can. I'm =
not
privy to all that is happening in Devuan... Shouldn't there anyway be a
central place from where to know without searching what and in which section
has been done and at what stage this or that is... Like a page to start when
you want to know the status and the news, a page always sensibly up to date=
=2E..

[A digression. I follow mostly only Devuan mailing list, as best I can], and
if I missed something, be kind to correct me.

So eudev not planned?

Just to point you at something that sparks my enthusiasm, as a keen support=
er.
and fills me with some angst at the same time. What it those f**ing tool(s)
(as Christopher Barry,
http://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
, who I see also follows, if not contributes, to Devuan, as he called
Poettering)... [What if those tools] achieve, for their masters, their
nefarious purposes sooner then true FOSS devs can raise defences against su=
ch
threats?

plans when udev becomes systemd-only ? (after kdbus merge)
https://github.com/gentoo/eudev/issues/95#issuecomment-122873308

And eudev works dbus-free just fine (such as in my Gentoo), dear people!

So, maybe to cut the talking shorter:

Is no-poetterware, no-dbus Devuan soon to be an attainable option for a user
like me, of medium advanced level (my maximum attainable level probably a g=
ood
tester)?

And then in no-dbus no-poetterware Devuan I apply grsec, and teach newbies =
to
install grsec-hardened kernels in their Devuans, like I did in Debian Forum=
s:

Grsecurity/Pax installation on Debian GNU/Linux
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3D16&t=3D108616

And to you, mirabilos, a question. What does this Devuan now beta (IIUC) lo=
ok
like to you? Can your MirDebianWTF fork into MirDevuanWTF and apply?

That is my dream!

Regards!

--=20
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr

--AhhlLboLdkugWU4S
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1
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=xXV+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--AhhlLboLdkugWU4S--