Yes, but I mean alts like s6, Runit, etc. In the past these were left to the users to make for themselves. For these to be viable, they need full script sets ready to go.

Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: T.J. Duchene<mailto:t.j.duchene@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎7/‎16/‎2015 7:18 PM
Cc: dng@???<mailto:dng@lists.dyne.org>
Subject: Re: [DNG] dng@???

> Throwing users to the wolves is not an option, and never should have
been one. Either an init script set be complete and maintained, or don't
bother including it.

Actually, I think that is Debian's POV too. Since they are switching to
Systemd, no one is maintaining the S5 scripts, so in all likelihood they
will be dropped in the future. I don't blame them for that, but it is
unfortunate. Systemd still has some annoyances.



On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:08 PM, James Powell <james4591@???> wrote:

> And if ANY alternative init system is offered, COMPLETE script sets
> should be offered. No more throwing users to the wolves. There is no excuse
> for this.
>
> This crap caused enough problems leading many people I've known to avoid
> alternatives. Throwing users to the wolves is not an option, and never
> should have been one. Either an init script set be complete and maintained,
> or don't bother including it.
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ------------------------------
> From: Steve Litt <slitt@???>
> Sent: ‎7/‎16/‎2015 6:29 PM
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] dng@???
>
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:01:43 -0700
> Gregory Nowak <greg@???> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 06:18:09PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> > > If I might say so, I think that Devuan's short-term goal should be
> > > to get a release out as soon as possible, as close to Debian Jesse
> > > as possible.
> >
> > I agree with James and T.J. here. Devuan 1.0 should be debian 8 sans
> > systemd.
>
> Me too.
>
> > As for which init system to use, I vote for sysvinit with
> > sysvinit scripting.
>
> Me too. I know how much effort needs to be put into alt-inits, and I'm
> sure moving to a superior init like Epoch, s6 or runit is something
> better done in a much later version. Sysvinit still has plenty of life
> left in it, and we all have 15 years experience with it.
>
> > This is what folks coming to devuan from debian
> > wheezy will be familiar with, and I know that's what I would expect to
> > find when installing/upgrading to devuan from wheezy.
>
> > Those who want
> > other init systems should know how to install them without having them
> > forced on those of us who prefer what we're used to.
>
> Yes we should. It's not that hard. And we should be ready, willing and
> able to document our trials and tribulations and successes so that
> *some day*, a long time from now, Devuan might choose a different init,
> if so desired. There's no rush.
>
> > > After that, I think that Devuan should focus on what would be
> > > needed to provide user choice for the next release. This is just
> > > my opinion, but I think that Devuan should pursue the goal that Ian
> > > Jackson left Debian over: making sure that the user can use
> > > whatever init they choose: be it System V, OpenRC or Systemd.
>
> I personally wouldn't jump through any hoops to get it to work with
> Systemd. First of all, if you want Devuan with Systemd, what you really
> want is Debian. Second, just like runit or s6 or Epoch, let users who
> want Systemd compile and install it extra-distro. If doing so is
> anything like runit, s6 and Epoch, that's not hard at all.
>
> But that's all in the future.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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