> Throwing users to the wolves is not an option, and never should have
been one. Either an init script set be complete and maintained, or don't
bother including it.

Actually, I think that is Debian's POV too. Since they are switching to
Systemd, no one is maintaining the S5 scripts, so in all likelihood they
will be dropped in the future. I don't blame them for that, but it is
unfortunate. Systemd still has some annoyances.



On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 9:08 PM, James Powell <james4591@???> wrote:

> And if ANY alternative init system is offered, COMPLETE script sets
> should be offered. No more throwing users to the wolves. There is no excuse
> for this.
>
> This crap caused enough problems leading many people I've known to avoid
> alternatives. Throwing users to the wolves is not an option, and never
> should have been one. Either an init script set be complete and maintained,
> or don't bother including it.
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ------------------------------
> From: Steve Litt <slitt@???>
> Sent: ‎7/‎16/‎2015 6:29 PM
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [DNG] dng@???
>
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:01:43 -0700
> Gregory Nowak <greg@???> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 06:18:09PM -0500, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> > > If I might say so, I think that Devuan's short-term goal should be
> > > to get a release out as soon as possible, as close to Debian Jesse
> > > as possible.
> >
> > I agree with James and T.J. here. Devuan 1.0 should be debian 8 sans
> > systemd.
>
> Me too.
>
> > As for which init system to use, I vote for sysvinit with
> > sysvinit scripting.
>
> Me too. I know how much effort needs to be put into alt-inits, and I'm
> sure moving to a superior init like Epoch, s6 or runit is something
> better done in a much later version. Sysvinit still has plenty of life
> left in it, and we all have 15 years experience with it.
>
> > This is what folks coming to devuan from debian
> > wheezy will be familiar with, and I know that's what I would expect to
> > find when installing/upgrading to devuan from wheezy.
>
> > Those who want
> > other init systems should know how to install them without having them
> > forced on those of us who prefer what we're used to.
>
> Yes we should. It's not that hard. And we should be ready, willing and
> able to document our trials and tribulations and successes so that
> *some day*, a long time from now, Devuan might choose a different init,
> if so desired. There's no rush.
>
> > > After that, I think that Devuan should focus on what would be
> > > needed to provide user choice for the next release. This is just
> > > my opinion, but I think that Devuan should pursue the goal that Ian
> > > Jackson left Debian over: making sure that the user can use
> > > whatever init they choose: be it System V, OpenRC or Systemd.
>
> I personally wouldn't jump through any hoops to get it to work with
> Systemd. First of all, if you want Devuan with Systemd, what you really
> want is Debian. Second, just like runit or s6 or Epoch, let users who
> want Systemd compile and install it extra-distro. If doing so is
> anything like runit, s6 and Epoch, that's not hard at all.
>
> But that's all in the future.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> July 2015 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21
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