On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 09:51:50AM +0200, Martial Bornet wrote:
> If Devuan is intended to respect the Unix philosophy, it must include "vi"
> in the default installation, and not as an optional package.
> Why not propose a choice for those who want another editor ?

I have no problem with vi in the default installation. I have problems
with vi as the default editor -- the one a vi-novice is pitched into
when the system asks him to edit something.

Neither emacs nor vi are suitable for this.

Once the user has a chance to choose, he can choose whatever he wants
as default. No problem.

-- hendrik

>
>
>
> 2015-07-15 18:56 GMT+02:00 Hendrik Boom <hendrik@???>:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:29:26AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Franco Lanza" <nextime@???>
> > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 09:35:03AM -0400, Rob Owens wrote:
> > > >> Which is Devuan intended to be?
> > > >>
> > > >> 1) Debian without systemd
> > > >> 2) A Debian-like distro
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Nor 1 or 2.
> > > > Devuan is intended to be a debian that respect:
> > > > 1- freedom of choice
> > > > 2- UNIX philosophy
> > > > 3- KISS philosophy
> > > >
> > > > Of course first of all those 3 points make systemd unacceptable. But
> > > > saying that devuan is just "debian withous systemd" is riductive.
> > > >
> > > > traditionally UNIX has vi, this is why i'm suggesting it. No packages
> > > > needs to be changed at all for this eventual switch, and anyway,
> > > > as devuan respect the users, this choice isn't an imposition from "the
> > > > hight", but it's a question to the whole ml userbase to listen
> > pro/cons.
> > >
> > > In that case, my next question would be "Do we want to cater to those who
> > > are new to Linux/Unix?" If yes, then nano is a good choice. If no, then
> > > vi is a good choice.
> >
> > It not just Unix newbies that have trouble with vi. It's anyone used
> > to a editor different from vi.
> >
> > >
> > > I don't like using nano, and always install vim, followed by
> > > 'update-alternatives'. But I remember as a new user being frustrated
> > > that I couldn't follow a simple how-to because I didn't know how to use
> > > vi. When I discovered nano, it was a huge relief.
> >
> > I don't like using nano either, and always install emacs. But I
> > imagine that to new user, emacs might also be extremely frustrating.
> > Having nano as default before I've had a chance to install anything
> > else is a huge relief.
> >
> > >
> > > I don't mind defaulting to nano for the sake of new users, even if nano
> > > isn't what I want to use. I know how to change the defaults. A new
> > > user does not.
> >
> > Exactly. Let's not force any editor with a steep learning curve
> > on the beginner. Is there another editor as easy to *start* using as nano?
> >
> > And let's not try to impose a one-sided settlement on the vi vs emacs
> > cotroversy.
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
> > >
> > > -Rob
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