You've accurately described the USA. I agree with everything.

The "state" here is just the enforcement wing of the capitalist ruling
class. Its a very passive-aggressive assault on freedom.

veleiro

Caleb James DeLisle:
> Well "my freedom" in the USA was something I left behind about 1.5 years
> ago and I never looked back. I walked away from crackheads and herion adicts
> wandering around, needles on the sides of the road, people screaming at
> eachother in neighboring apartments, no jobs, no money, no oppertunities
> except in the army or police department.
>
> I remember watching an old man driving up in the family car and pick through
> the garbage in front of the house - collecting soda cans.
>
> The recession in America began in the 1970's and by the early 2000's left
> an empty desert - and the cactus which would grow there would be Walmart.
> Walmart rose to power from the recognition that after the loss of any hope
> of self-betterment, people could still deaden the pain by "getting a deal"
> and so began the flow of ever-cheaper products made in near slave conditions.
>
> After Afghanistan, junk hit the streets again for the first time since
> Viet Nam and small-town bank robberies and other despiration-crime exploded.
>
>
>
> At the end of the day, with all the talk about liberal economics and
> self-betterment, there are actually people measuring these things. If the
> system really isn't rigged to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, then
> there must be instances of the poor becoming rich or the rich becoming poor.
>
> This is called Inter-Generational Income Mobility, and the sad truth is that
> in countries where the money is concentrated - the poor stay poor forever.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16/07/15 11:07, Javier wrote:
>>
>>
>> El 16/07/15 a las 09:55, Caleb James DeLisle escribió:
>>>
>>> But maybe they're right, maybe economics really is easy, maybe all of the
>>> economists in the world are over-thinking the problem and all we have to do
>>> is get rid of the state and all will be well. If this is the case, perhaps
>>> you know of a place which actually did this and where it actually worked.
>>
>>
>> Actually, yes, I'm going to say USA, but before that, there are many
>> small countries that are more or less liberal, and the more liberal they
>> are, the better.
>> Scientifically, you just can compare the level of socialism with the
>> level of liberalism, and you'll find without exception that more liberal
>> countries are leading the top.
>> In Europe, we have Switzerland as a clear example. We also had a VERY
>> CLEAR and scientific demonstration of the great differences between
>> socialist and liberal economics and social politics: the two germanies
>> before the fall of The Wall. I recommend you to study that if you are so
>> interested. While in one side of Germany they lived very well, at the
>> level of the rest of west european countries (except Spain, that had a
>> socialist dictatorship similar to Hitler for 40 years), the other was
>> really poor and influenced by the socialism coming from Russia.
>> You can also look at Russia itself. Don't forget Cuba too, which 50
>> years ago they had an average incoming per habitant superior to USA and
>> now they are extremely poor (they earn around $50 a month).
>> Of course, look at China, in which everything must be negotiated with
>> the communist party, and while the country itself is the second power in
>> the world, the people are extremely poor and very much maintained into
>> very deep ignorance by the control of the media.
>> And look at Venezuela, while it was a country that was emerging and
>> going good (with corruption, yes, but improving), it is now loosing 7%
>> of its economy every year, and has and inflation of 100% anual.
>> Do you think these examples are evidence enough to support the theory
>> that socialism not only does not work, but it is an involution in fact?
>> Do you know of any liberal dictatorship if that is even remotely
>> possible and how is it going?
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the USA, people will answer unequivicolly that it is the USA. This is a
>>> country where the elite, the 1% of the people controlling 95% of the wealth,
>>> have established themselves as a de-facto shadow government. Capitalists to
>>> the core, they have created markets to buy and sell public opinion through
>>> access to broadcast mediums, markets for the buying and selling of public
>>> policy and even markets to buy and sell price fixing and non-compete
>>> agreements... Markets of monopolies.
>>
>> While I do agree with this, you should compare that kind of shadow
>> goverment with the shadow goverment of China. This conversation would be
>> totally imposible in China. You are sent to prison for life for speaking
>> things like this.
>> In USA and in Europe, 1% of the population is controlling the other 99%
>> and not completely because they have the control over the money
>> production. You change that, and they don't have any kind of control
>> anymore.
>>
>> We also have Internet. No matter how much money you put into convincing
>> people about something, if you have a free internet, they are not buying
>> it, and lists like this are possible.
>> If we are truly anarchist, we must be against socialism with all our
>> forces, otherwise we would be very fool. Socialism without
>> centralization of power is just impossible at every single level. Forget
>> about anarchist socialism, it is just impossible and it is a big
>> manipulation. Socialism perpetuated for many years always end up as
>> dictatorship. You people in USA haven't learnt this yet because you
>> haven't been infected much, so you don't know in first person what is to
>> be truly socialist.
>>
>>
>>> All this time, the real buying power of employee wages has not budged one
>>> cent since it froze in 1971, the year Bretton Woods collapsed and Nixon and
>>> Volcker put together a new economic engine based on borrowing against the
>>> petro-dollar and actively destabilizing any other asset that anyone might
>>> want to invest in.
>>
>> You certainly don't know what you are saying. Compare your freedom
>> against the freedom of the rest of the society.
>> I'm not defending our fake democracy, I'm just comparing what is to have
>> "a little of freedom" to what is to live in a socialist state.
>> I'd like to unsystem this system as much as you do, but please don't be
>> confused: socialism is clearly not the solution, but the contrary, it is
>> a much bigger problem.
>>
>>> What might be the worst thing is that Paul Volcker, the chief architect of
>>> this now-defunct monster, finds himself shouted down by the arrogant and
>>> childish elite which his system created, who now seem to think that he is
>>> just a raving old man, the petro-dollar is a conspiracy theory and every
>>> penny of the cash permeating Wall Street is duly earned.
>>
>> I agree with this. Do you know what is the solution? Bitcoin and MORE
>> freedom, not less, and not giving more control to the state, which
>> always happens when socialism arises.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you're looking for Eldorado in the USA, I have sad news.
>>> Which brings back the question: Where is it?
>>
>> Then don't come for it to Spain, it is worse.
>>
>>
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