Hi all,
I break my silence again for my two cents.

I think we have a very good design in offering non-free firmware that is
essential to complete the installation of the distribution, and ensuring that
the end-user knows and explicitly consents. Offering two installation media
distinguished in free and non-free version looks also a good move as we further
stress that we strive for open-nes and maintainability whenever it is possible.

Assuming no technical issues or man-power shortage gets in between, this is a
tradeoff (IMHO the best one, currently) between two conflicting needs

- aiming at open-ness and freedom (as a tool, at least, to ensure
maintainability and reliability)

- aiming at helping the large audience (majority...) of people who cannot afford
to _only_ choose proprietary blob-free hardware.

I would cast my vote there; and opt for providing non-free (but freely
redistributable) blobs that are essential for successful installation in the
non-free version of the installer (there can be fallback options ofc for
uncommon HW and experienced users).

That likely boils down to support for mainstream networking and storage devices,
as previously commented, or maybe some specific CPUs, if really mandatory.

This can be done thanks to the efforts of a few dedicated people, which I wish
to thank again.

>> From: James Powell <james4591@???>

>> This isn't about free versus non-free. Those days are long past gone. The less a distribution supports, the more it falls away into a niche. Niche distributions do not go places or make bold statements. Devuan must be able to stand against Debian toe to toe, as well as Arch, Slackware, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.
>>
>> Firmware that makes a system usable is and should always be welcomed. The more you limit, the less users you have.
>>
>> What the user does to their system after installation shouldn't be a concern. What should be a concern, how many users can we win over.
>>

I do not agree here; I will not challenge the points specifically, not to derail
the thread, but if we were aiming for large markets more than _anything_ else
there would be no Devuan at all (as stated before, free is often a prerequisite
of maintainable).

Not willing to bash James either: I agree on several other views he states; but
I don't want to see Devuan struggle with too many binary blobs to the point of
diminishing returns.
IMHO Devuan should aim for streamlined desing (KISS) and only support firwmare
that is _both_ essential to install on some non esoteric HW _and_ practical to
support in the installer media and in the running system.

Cheers
    Massimo

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