On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 9:29 PM, Daniel Reurich <daniel@???>
wrote:

> Ok,
>
> That was interesting....
>
> Here's my thinking on the how and the why.
>
> definition of terms:
> user = the person using the installer to install Devuan.
> module = linux kernel module.
> hardware = reference to the particular chipset(s) in scope, be they SoC or
> plug in cards or devices.
> firmware = non-free binary blob that is required to be loaded by the
> standard kernel module for the hardware in scope in order for the hardware
> to operate.
> essential: required for proper operation.
>
>
> How:
> ****
>
> I will build a (udeb) package called firmware-reqd that:
>
> 1) Will provide an early detection of a select list of common essential
> hardware that:
> a) requires a non-free firmware blob
> b) is essential to make the system use-able enough to complete the
> installation to a bootable state.
>
> 2) Upon detection of said hardware, I will provide a prompt informing the
> user about the specific piece(s) of hardware detected that require non-free
> firmware to and give them the option to load that firmware and continue the
> installation or abort it at that point.
>
> 3) Only firmware meeting the above criteria will be included in the iso,
> but not used or loaded unless the operator specifically chooses to do so.
>
> 4) The choice to use non-free firmware will naturally lead to the question
> about whether the related firmware deb packages should be installed during
> the install. I could provide an option here, defaulting to yes but
> allowing deselection for those who may want to leverage the non-free
> firmware only during install but not on the running system.
>
> Note: When non-free firmware udebs are installed by debconf my
> understanding is that each of them will present the user a license upon
> which is also required to be accepted before that udeb is installed.
>
> ****
>
> Why this approach:
>
> I agree in principle about using strictly free/libre open source software,
> and where I have the choice I personaly will select hardware that aligns
> with those principles.
>
> However, I would not want my choices to become the tool that would punish
> those less informed, or unable to make the sacrifices required to comply
> entirely with that principle. To do so would be ungracious and unrealistic,
> and boils down to elitism and puritanism.
>
> Nevertheless, to silently let the installation of non-free firmware be
> done without recognition and challenge is not right either. So I see the
> most gracious approach is to inform the users and grant them the
> opportunity to choose how they would like to proceed. It gives opportunity
> for those who for conscience sake would refuse non-free firmware to do so,
> whilst not enforcing that choice an all users.
>
> I think that this is a reasonable approach, and once the above proposed
> package is ready, it is my intention to have it included in the official
> installer images we ship. Anyone that strongly objects can re-build their
> own installers without the non-free firmware packages added.
>
>
I like this approach as well as Nextime's. I generally favor approaches
that help the users make informed decisions, but otherwise don't get in
their way of them doing what they want with their computers.

I can help out with steps 1 and 2, if you're interested. There's lots of
overlap with my work on vdev.

Thank you for all the hard work you've put into getting the Devuan
installer ready!
-Jude


>
>
>
>
> On 03/06/15 20:37, Daniel Reurich wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'd like a straw poll on whether we should include non-free firmware in
>> our installers by default.
>>
>> It's a deviation from Debians traditional position, but a pragmatic one
>> that shows we care about the end users.
>>
>> Keen for feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Daniel Reurich
> Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
> 021 797 722
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