On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 8:00 AM, <dng-request@???> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Which package generates /lib/systemd and /etc/systemd
> files? (Jaret Cantu)
> 2. Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions
> imported from libsystemd & Co.? (Edward Bartolo)
> 3. Please stop vain discussion (Didier Kryn)
> 4. Re: A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development (Jaromil)
> 5. Re: Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions
> imported from libsystemd & Co.? (Jaromil)
> 6. Re: Which package generates /lib/systemd and /etc/systemd
> files? (Hendrik Boom)
> 7. Re: Which package generates /lib/systemd and /etc/systemd
> files? (KatolaZ)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 01:53:15 -0400
> From: Jaret Cantu <jaret@???>
> To: "dng@???" <dng@???>
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and
> /etc/systemd files?
> Message-ID: <5549AC4B.10506@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On 05/06/2015 01:16 AM, Jude Nelson wrote:
> > I think the plan is to address needless dependencies and lock-in in a
> > more general way, via the constitution
> > (https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/wikis/DevuanConstitution).
> > Sections 2.2 and 9.10 are meant to alleviate this problem--not just
> > for systemd, but for all software package suites that get included.
> I really do try to be general and say "init systems" instead of focusing
> on systemd, but it is really hard to keep up when one can't think of
> another piece of software with claws as deep as systemd's.
>
> ... Glib2, maybe...
>
> > You may be interested to know that uselessd is effectively dead in the
> > water. The original uselessd author has since given up
> > (https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=4963). Someone else
> > seems to have taken over, but I haven't heard anything about its
> > subsequent progress (last repository commit is January 6:
> > https://bitbucket.org/Tarnyko/uselessd).
> I did kinda get that impression from the wasteland of a website, but
> getting confirmation does sting a bit.
>
> > I'm personally not opposed to someone taking up maintenance of
> > uselessd and packaging it in a way that it conforms to Devuan's
> > constitution :) The problem is, we'd need to find someone with the
> > time, skill, and willpower to do it. That person is not me. I barely
> > have enough time to work on vdev as it is :(
> It has been on my radar for a while. Or more accurately, at the bottom
> of my To-Do Tower. It is one of those things that is hard to get
> motivated to do when I personally know I'll never use it on a real system.
> Prolly would rank a middling effort in terms of my revenge programming
> projects. Maybe I just need fewer revenge projects in my To-Do Tower?
> uselessd would at least give me an excuse to learn some of the black
> magic what am systemd. (Last time I encountered a board with systemd on
> it, I wound up booting it to NFS instead just so I could get the ssh
> service properly auto-starting; it was a SOM without serial on the
> carrier board, so "Why didn't you just run sshd?" is not a proper
> response.)
>
>
>
> ~jaret
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 06:58:41 +0000
> From: Edward Bartolo <edbarx@???>
> To: dng <dng@???>
> Subject: [Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions
> imported from libsystemd & Co.?
> Message-ID:
> <CAKENem7M3R23M0RrnLbhjEveDwpVaNSzUaMy5cD3dPh=
> CbHBww@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I am using lsof together with objdump -T executable to determine what
> systemd functions are imported by essential XFCE4 executables.
>
> For instance, this is for /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor:
>
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 LIBSYSTEMD_209
> sd_session_get_seat
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_object_get_type
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_dbus_interface_get_type
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_object_set_data
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_value_set_variant
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_volume_get_drive
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_drive_is_media_check_automatic
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_block_get_id_label
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_error_new_literal
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_filesystem_get_mount_points
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_timeout_source_new_seconds
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_object_info_get_description
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_io_channel_set_flags
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_variant_iter_free
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_drive_get_identifier
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_main_context_ref_thread_default
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_client_peek_object
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_type_class_peek
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_variant_lookup
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_strdup_vprintf
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_block_dup_id_uuid
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_unix_mount_get_fs_type
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_unix_mount_point_get_options
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_signal_accumulator_true_handled
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_mount_get_symbolic_icon
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_quark_try_string
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> udisks_drive_call_eject_finish
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 LIBSYSTEMD_209
> sd_pid_get_session
> 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000
> g_file_get_type
>
>
> The exercise is to search for these functions in systemd's source code
> and create a .so file with only the required functions. The functions
> can also be reimplemented, but that takes more time than simply
> stripping the required functions.
>
> Edward
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 10:23:05 +0200
> From: Didier Kryn <kryn@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: [Dng] Please stop vain discussion
> Message-ID: <5549CF69.1080901@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear devuaners,
>
> Debatting wether Devuan should allow systemd usage or forbid it
> completely, or wether it should eradicate systemd service files from all
> packages is interesting, but for sure prematurate. Let's discuss that
> when someone proposes to do the job.
>
> Up to now nobody has proposed to eradicate those service files from
> all packages except for himself and nobody has proposed to package
> systemd for Devuan. And, as already said, there are more important
> things to do if you have the necessary skills.
>
> Please let's stop exchanging flames in vain.
>
> Didier
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 10:29:59 +0200
> From: Jaromil <jaromil@???>
> To: Jaret Cantu <jaret@???>
> Cc: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development
> Message-ID: <20150506082959.GA22891@fork>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> dear Jaret,
>
> thanks for your information
>
> On Tue, 05 May 2015, Jaret Cantu wrote:
>
> > eudev continues to pull in relevant udev changes from the systemd
> > tree (without the init-specific filth, obviously) and even provides
> > some fixes of its own. It is like a window into some magical world
> > where udev development continues under the old banner. Well, a
> > similar banner that is one character wider, at least.
>
> if this is true, then eudev is a really good candidate for us to
> substitute udev and we should at least package it to see how it works,
> while still waiting for vdev to get to a stable state.
>
> I was never a fan of udev all the way and think that Jude's approach at
> redesigning is way better, yet eudev now is likely to be more stable if
> the above is true. I'm particularly interested by the fact they are
> backporting the updates in udev and even fixing some of them.
>
> can you provide examples in which this happened?
>
> just in case you have time, for us to better evaluate the option
>
> > The only difference I've really noticed with the last version of
> > udev before being cannibalized and eudev is that eudev doesn't build
> > against some old (pre-3.0) kernel headers. That's really only an
> > issue for crufty embedded targets, not desktops, tho'.
>
> well, there are a few of those, NAS and mediaplayers, that are actually
> widely distributed on the consumer market. Anyway I doubt they will
> upgrade anything to the point they'll ever need to defend themselves
> from the systemd avalanche.
>
> ciao
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 10:35:37 +0200
> From: Jaromil <jaromil@???>
> To: Edward Bartolo <edbarx@???>
> Cc: dng <dng@???>
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace
> functions imported from libsystemd & Co.?
> Message-ID: <20150506083537.GB22891@fork>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> hi Edward,
>
> On Wed, 06 May 2015, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>
> > I am using lsof together with objdump -T executable to determine what
> > systemd functions are imported by essential XFCE4 executables.
> >
> > For instance, this is for /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor:
>
> [...]
>
> this was Dima's approach for making stubs in his loginkit. I guess he is
> the best person to team up with to complete this approach, yet be aware
> that it has revealed more complex than it sounds at the beginning, since
> there is not only binary compatibility in the way, but messaging that
> other program expect to happen.
>
> ciao
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 06:27:49 -0400
> From: Hendrik Boom <hendrik@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and
> /etc/systemd files?
> Message-ID: <20150506102749.GA12184@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:12:46PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote:
> > On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 05:34:19PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> >
> > [cut]
> >
> > > >I meant "we should live with the fact that systemd is not unpluggable"
> > > >:)
> > >
> > > Nicely put. But do you draw any implication from that vis-a-vis
> > > supporting systemd in Devuan? (I certainly do :-)
> > >
> >
> > If it was up to me (and it is not), I would make no effort at all in
> > trying to have systemd in Devuan, since I believe there is no point in
> > doing that. There is already a Debian with systemd, and is called
> > Debian, while some great people out there are working hard to give us
> > a Debian *without* systemd, which will be called Devuan. And the work
> > of those people has been made extremely difficult by the fact that
> > systemd is not designed to be pluggable on and off, and the systemd
> > developers keep answering "won't fix" to any request for compatibility
> > with other init system and low-level system daemons. They are
> > definitely determined to go their way, whatever the cost of it,
> > because they think that systemd is "right and technically sound".
> >
> > So why should we waste man-power on allowing to use systemd in a
> > distribution whose first aim and motivation is to provide a
> > systemd-free GNU/Linux?!?!?
>
> Nor should we waste manpower making it extra difficult for anyone to
> use systemd on Devuan. They'll have a hard enough time already, and we
> do too.
>
> -- hendrik
>
> >
> > My2Cents
> >
> > KatolaZ
> >
> > --
> > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
> > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dng mailing list
> > Dng@???
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 12:17:02 +0100
> From: KatolaZ <katolaz@???>
> To: Hendrik Boom <hendrik@???>
> Cc: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and
> /etc/systemd files?
> Message-ID: <20150506111702.GH22458@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 06:27:49AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
> > >
> > > So why should we waste man-power on allowing to use systemd in a
> > > distribution whose first aim and motivation is to provide a
> > > systemd-free GNU/Linux?!?!?
> >
> > Nor should we waste manpower making it extra difficult for anyone to
> > use systemd on Devuan. They'll have a hard enough time already, and we
> > do too.
> >
>
> +1
>
> :)
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
> [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Dng Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24
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