On 05/05/2015 12:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:49:34AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Hi Noel,
>>
>> Having any systemd-equipped Devuan packages means that I need to always
>> be on my guard to prevent systemd from sneaking in.
> Could segregate the packages by putting them in another category, so
> we'd have free, contrib, nonfree, systemd, ...
>
> -- hendrik

It would probably help to have some ground rules on how Devuan handles
packages which provide systemd support. I know Devuan says "Nope!" when
it comes to anything that would introduce systemd/init system
dependencies, but does it ever get more elaborate than that? If it is
already in a wiki or README on git, I've missed it.

I can think of two ways these dependencies would come up in packages
that would need to be addressed:

* Configurable systemd support:

All Devuan packages should be configured NOT to depend on systemd,
whenever possible. This prevents init-system creep. This doesn't stop
one from using systemd and a package that has potential systemd support
(like xfce); however, said package on Devuan would not get any of the
additional benefits from systemd, such as... um, binary logging?

I would recommend against maintaining a separate, systemd-configured
repository; that would just be mainline Debian.


* Hard systemd requirements:

I believe this is where gnome3 and similar software falls; the project
has a hard runtime and/or buildtime dependency on systemd. The only way
to offer these packages on a non-systemd Devuan is to patch out the
systemd from the source. Fortunately, FreeBSD already has to do this,
right? Just raid their patches.

This can become a maintenance burden, which is why it is cool to have a
second option on how Devuan can handle these packages: *don't*.



Now, this handling of systemd-dependent packages still means that
systemd can be offered, but only as an init. (An init system only be
used to initialize a system? What madness is this!) And the only way
that systemd will ever make it onto your system is with an explicit
apt-get install since no other packages depend on it.

But IMHO, I think it would be wiser to offer uselessd instead of systemd:

http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/

Thataway, our (e)udev offering would be less muddled. Also, hilarity.

Besides, going with uselessd instead would make a systemd-ish Devuan
different than just Debian with poorer systemd integration. It would
kinda be like libav over ffmpeg; on this distro, systemd would just be
considered a "deprecated" version of uselessd (what with its text logs
and lack of gluttony against fellow software projects), even though both
projects (in both cases) are considered currently active.



~jaret