Steve Litt <slitt@???> escribió:

> On Tue, 05 May 2015 16:50:13 +0200
> Anto <aryanto@???> wrote:
>
>> In my view, the decision to use systemd as the default init of Debian
>> forces the locked-in of massive number of packages into systemd. That
>> is the main problem which leads to the birth of Devuan. They then
>> provide workarounds for people who want to use other init systems,
>> e.g. shim, etc., to be able to use the whole systemd base distro.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Anto
>
> As a guy involved in the Debian-User systemd wars, and an early
> resident of the Modular-Debian and Dng lists, what Anto says is how I
> remember things. We were going for sans-systemd, not systemd optional.

Hi Steve:

We are going sans-systemd for Jessie, to be able to give our users
true freedom at some point. Debian gives no freedom since systemd is
imposed (forget chatter about the meaning of "default" and headless
machines).

It was clearly said before: our main points are freedom and choice.
And yes, this includes freedom to choose the worst ever init system
dinosaur out there.

Why do we, then, remove systemd?

Because it is so intrincately depended on by the core of a Debian
system that we can not simply "get Debian and remove the systemd
bits". We owe our users a truly systemd-free system, and that's why we
are here, but we do not owe them a systemd-forbidding system.

We are building a distribution, and as such we make decisions and set
defaults. But the user is in the wheel, not us. There is where Debian
failed us.

Do I want systemd in my boxes? For sure not, but I still want to be
free to choose "yes" inside Devuan, exactly the same I'm free to shout
some political views on the street. It's a matter of freedom, not a
matter of forbidding. Devuan gives me the choice, and I will chose "No
systemd, thanks".

As a resume: If you want a systemd-free system, Devuan is your
distribution, and will always be. But if you want a system designed to
be unable to run systemd, please leave us. This is not the place for
such an anti-freedom POV.

To the service files removal point: don't be the Inquisition. It just
gives extra work for no gain. Keeping the files off means keeping a
constant patch, whose work will be better invested in actually
removing dependencies on systemd in other packages, testing the
distribution, building sane environments, etc.

Regards

Noel
er envite