On Tue, 05 May 2015 14:31:45 +0200
Anto <aryanto@???> wrote:

>
>
> On 05/05/15 13:48, Noel Torres wrote:
> >
> > Didier Kryn <kryn@???> escribió:
> >

> > [...]
> >>     I bet every service daemon package would now provide
> >> a .service file, just like everyone used to provide an init
> >> script. As far as I understand, the .service files are the systemd
> >> counterpart of sysvinit scripts. I imagine it is just enough to
> >> remove the file from the package; it would be usefull only to
> >> systemd.

> >>

> >>     Didier

> >
> > There is no reason to remove them. That would be a Delta that we
> > must maintain package over package, version after version. Just
> > allow them to be there, unused.
> >
> > Please remember that our objective is not to forbid nor impede
> > usage of systemd. A Devuan user might quite well **CHOOSE** to use
> > systemd (well, not for the first version that we will launch
> > without systemd at all). Our objective is to allow freedom. It
> > would be wonderful if all packages provides start/stop scripts for
> > all init systems.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Noel
> > er Envite
>
> Hello Noel,
>
> I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate
> them :)
>
> I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
> should it? The decision in Debian to default the init system to
> systemd is the main reason to fork Debian in the first place. And the
> users who want systemd are better of using Debian instead of Devuan.
>
> On my particular case, I want to have that cron.service file gone as
> that is the main reason for me to re-compile it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anto

I have two contradictory comments.

First, like Anto, to the extent possible, I want nothing systemd on my
computer. For practical reasons, I disagree with Noel about giving the
user the right to choose systemd. As a practical matter, no non-troll
person would choose Devuan if they wanted systemd. They might choose
Devuan if they wanted runit, s6, nosh, Epoch, Suckless Init and the
like, but for systemd, their universe is like a million dollar gift
certificate at the mall. Almost every distro on the planet comes
with systemd. We owe systemd to nobody: They have plenty of other
alternatives.

Oppositely, the perfect is the enemy of the good, and if we need to
keep a few systemdisms in order to roll out a distribution, so be it.
If, on an ongoing basis, there's a lag between Debian's welding of
systemd to new functionalities, and our ability to undo the weld, we
should give the user the welded version until we can free the
capability.

To me, the degree to which we "support" systemd has nothing to do with
"choice", and everything to do with practicality. To me, in a perfect
world, there wouldn't be a line of systemd code in Devuan. If someone
wants Devuan with systemd, there's a word for that: Debian.

SteveT

Steve Litt
May 2015 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business
http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz