Please Guys, my answer to Anto was purely technical but it
triggered a philosophical discussion which happened already several
times. Could we stop the thread please? Maybe this discussion may happen
later, when we are all happy with our working devuan system.

     Didier

Le 05/05/2015 16:43, Marlon Nunes a écrit :
> On 2015-05-05 11:34, Anto wrote:
>> On 05/05/15 16:00, Noel Torres wrote:
>>>
>>> Anto <aryanto@???> escribió:
>>> [...]
>>>> Hello Noel,
>>>>
>>>> I think I have a good reason to want to have them removed. I hate
>>>> them :)
>>>
>>> You are free to do so.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think Devuan should provide the option to use systemd. Why
>>>> should it? The decision in Debian to default the init system to
>>>> systemd is the main reason to fork Debian in the first place. And
>>>> the users who want systemd are better of using Debian instead of
>>>> Devuan.
>>>
>>> You don't think that we should provide the option. But we should,
>>> because not doing so means removing freedom fro mour users: removing
>>> the freedom to use systemd.
>>>
>>> We are not anti-systemd, we are anti-systemd-being-imposed. And the
>>> first step is to create a distribution able to work without systemd
>>> at all.
>>>
>>> Truly speaking, we are no anti-anything. We are pro-freedom
>>> (including the freedom to choose systemd). This was extensively
>>> discussed on the first days of this list.
>>>>
>>>> On my particular case, I want to have that cron.service file gone
>>>> as that is the main reason for me to re-compile it.
>>>
>>> Well, I would say that is not a reason to recompile it at all, but
>>> that's up to you. I say, tough, that only the removal of a systemd
>>> service file is not a reason for Devuan to maintain a Delta over
>>> Debian (and all the associated wasted effort).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Anto
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Noel
>>> er Envite
>>
>> I think you are contradicting yourself, Noel.
>>
>> On one hand you wrote that removing anything related to systemd like
>> what I am doing, is a waste of efforts. On the other hand, you wrote
>> that Devuan should support systemd in the future and that is not a
>> waste of efforts.
>>
>> In my view, the later is really a waste of efforts as that means all
>> the efforts that are currently being done in removing systemd and
>> stripping all systemd related components from a lot of packages, will
>> have to be repeated to implement them again in the future possibly in
>> different form.
>>
>> The freedom of choice for the users who prefer systemd already exists
>> a few years ago. If I would be one of those people, I wouldn't wait
>> for Devuan to support systemd as I can use any other distros. In fact
>> I wouldn't even look at Devuan as I would probably be already happily
>> using a distro with systemd.
>>
>> I completely agree that Devuan must offer choices to the users. But
>> that must not clash with the principle as to why Devuan must exist in
>> the first place.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Anto
>>
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> 1+
>