Should have said in the earlier email: the list of contributors I gave
earlier is definitely not all-encompassing, nor was it meant to be (I was
trying to give an example of other people working towards a systemd-free
future, and those were the first few people that came to mind). This is
why a wiki page with all contributors accounted for--not only developers,
but also testers, bug-hunters, integrators, editors, document-writers,
graphic artists, packagers, and so on. We're all in this together :)

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Jude Nelson <judecn@???> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Martijn Dekkers <
> devuan-list1@???> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> It really is a pity. The VUA and guys like Jude do awesome work bringing
>> the state-of-the-art forward when it comes to actually building working
>> technology that does not depend on systemd, whilst this list is quickly
>> just an echo chamber of pre-approved opinions. And the pre-approved
>> opinions are getting less by the day.
>>
>>
> I've seen at least two posts now where I've been held up as an example of
> doing something about systemd. First, thank you for your kind words :)
> Second, I can't take all the credit :) Besides the VUA collective
> (Jaromil, Nextime, Hellekin, and others?), there's also:
>
> * Dima Krasner, who is working on LoginKit (
> https://git.devuan.org/pkgs-utopia-substitution/loginkit), as well as
> building Puppy Linux from Devuan, and getting lightdm to work without
> logind.
> * Isaac Dunham, who is working on libsysdev (
> https://github.com/idunham/libsysdev) and getting X.org to run without
> libudev.
> * Scooby, lepoitr, John Carline, and other anonymous contributors who are
> helping me test vdev on live hardware.
>
> I'd like to get a list together (perhaps on the wiki?) of the names or
> aliases of the people who are working on making Devuan possible, so we can
> give credit where credit is due.
>
> -Jude
>
>
>> On 6 April 2015 at 17:55, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 11:46:45 +0300
>>> Martijn Dekkers <devuan-list1@???> wrote:
>>>
>>> > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just
>>> > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork
>>> > > specifically born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be
>>> > > able to convince us that systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and
>>> > > *necessary*? I don't want to be saved, thanks ;)
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > Looks to me like he isn't arguing for systemd, but he is just
>>> > discussing systems designs and implementation. Also looks to me like
>>> > he is simply keeping an open mind, and not getting swept away in hate
>>> > either way....
>>>
>>> But to what point? Devuan was born in, OK, I'll use your
>>> characterization, hate, of systemd. Eliminating systemd is the
>>> cornerstone of Devuan. Sure, we're forming principles that accommodate
>>> our refusal to use systemd, and accommodate future software fiascos,
>>> but it's obvious that Devuan=NoSystemd.
>>>
>>> So what is the point, on this particular list, of keeping an open mind
>>> on the subject of systemd? I can see the point on the Manjaro list, or
>>> the Gentoo list, or the Saybayon list, or the OpenSuSE list. But on
>>> declared systemd-never lists like Devuan or Funtoo, or for that matter
>>> on declared systemd-forever lists like RedHat and Fedora, what's the
>>> point of being systemd agnostic?
>>>
>>> Systemd-agnosticism is appropriate in most venues. But not in venues
>>> whose very foundation is pro or anti systemd.
>>>
>>> SteveT
>>>
>>> Steve Litt
>>> Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/28
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dng mailing list
>>> Dng@???
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Dng@???
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>>
>>
>