On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Martijn Dekkers <
devuan-list1@???> wrote:

[snip]

> It really is a pity. The VUA and guys like Jude do awesome work bringing
> the state-of-the-art forward when it comes to actually building working
> technology that does not depend on systemd, whilst this list is quickly
> just an echo chamber of pre-approved opinions. And the pre-approved
> opinions are getting less by the day.
>
>
I've seen at least two posts now where I've been held up as an example of
doing something about systemd. First, thank you for your kind words :)
Second, I can't take all the credit :) Besides the VUA collective
(Jaromil, Nextime, Hellekin, and others?), there's also:

* Dima Krasner, who is working on LoginKit (
https://git.devuan.org/pkgs-utopia-substitution/loginkit), as well as
building Puppy Linux from Devuan, and getting lightdm to work without
logind.
* Isaac Dunham, who is working on libsysdev (
https://github.com/idunham/libsysdev) and getting X.org to run without
libudev.
* Scooby, lepoitr, John Carline, and other anonymous contributors who are
helping me test vdev on live hardware.

I'd like to get a list together (perhaps on the wiki?) of the names or
aliases of the people who are working on making Devuan possible, so we can
give credit where credit is due.

-Jude


> On 6 April 2015 at 17:55, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 11:46:45 +0300
>> Martijn Dekkers <devuan-list1@???> wrote:
>>
>> > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just
>> > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork
>> > > specifically born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be
>> > > able to convince us that systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and
>> > > *necessary*? I don't want to be saved, thanks ;)
>> > >
>> >
>> > Looks to me like he isn't arguing for systemd, but he is just
>> > discussing systems designs and implementation. Also looks to me like
>> > he is simply keeping an open mind, and not getting swept away in hate
>> > either way....
>>
>> But to what point? Devuan was born in, OK, I'll use your
>> characterization, hate, of systemd. Eliminating systemd is the
>> cornerstone of Devuan. Sure, we're forming principles that accommodate
>> our refusal to use systemd, and accommodate future software fiascos,
>> but it's obvious that Devuan=NoSystemd.
>>
>> So what is the point, on this particular list, of keeping an open mind
>> on the subject of systemd? I can see the point on the Manjaro list, or
>> the Gentoo list, or the Saybayon list, or the OpenSuSE list. But on
>> declared systemd-never lists like Devuan or Funtoo, or for that matter
>> on declared systemd-forever lists like RedHat and Fedora, what's the
>> point of being systemd agnostic?
>>
>> Systemd-agnosticism is appropriate in most venues. But not in venues
>> whose very foundation is pro or anti systemd.
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>> Steve Litt
>> Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/28
>>
>>
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