So, let me get this right - it is frowned upon on this list to mention
anything of the following regarding systemd:
- Any potentially positive attributes of systemd;
- Any potentially valid use-cases of systemd;
- Any possible non-deranged systemd developers;
- Any reasons distro's might have to adopt systemd other than "RedHat wants
to eat the world, Mark Shuttleworth is a dumbass; the Debian team has been
corrupted"
- Any hints towards systemd-agnosticism?

Because if that is the case, then you really are no better than the lot
across the fence. Same ridiculous blinkered views, different flag to pledge
blind allegiance to.

I have a real life example of how this comes across:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020382/You-entering-Sharia-law-Britain-As-Islamic-extremists-declare-Sharia-law-zone-London-suburb-worrying-social-moral-implications.html

It really is a pity. The VUA and guys like Jude do awesome work bringing
the state-of-the-art forward when it comes to actually building working
technology that does not depend on systemd, whilst this list is quickly
just an echo chamber of pre-approved opinions. And the pre-approved
opinions are getting less by the day.


On 6 April 2015 at 17:55, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Apr 2015 11:46:45 +0300
> Martijn Dekkers <devuan-list1@???> wrote:
>
> > > What really puzzles me is why if you love systemd that much you just
> > > continue arguing about systemd on the ML of a Debian fork
> > > specifically born to throw systemd away. Do you think you might be
> > > able to convince us that systemd is *good* and *beautiful* and
> > > *necessary*? I don't want to be saved, thanks ;)
> > >
> >
> > Looks to me like he isn't arguing for systemd, but he is just
> > discussing systems designs and implementation. Also looks to me like
> > he is simply keeping an open mind, and not getting swept away in hate
> > either way....
>
> But to what point? Devuan was born in, OK, I'll use your
> characterization, hate, of systemd. Eliminating systemd is the
> cornerstone of Devuan. Sure, we're forming principles that accommodate
> our refusal to use systemd, and accommodate future software fiascos,
> but it's obvious that Devuan=NoSystemd.
>
> So what is the point, on this particular list, of keeping an open mind
> on the subject of systemd? I can see the point on the Manjaro list, or
> the Gentoo list, or the Saybayon list, or the OpenSuSE list. But on
> declared systemd-never lists like Devuan or Funtoo, or for that matter
> on declared systemd-forever lists like RedHat and Fedora, what's the
> point of being systemd agnostic?
>
> Systemd-agnosticism is appropriate in most venues. But not in venues
> whose very foundation is pro or anti systemd.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/28
>
>
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