On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 11:16:02AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

[cut]

>
> What I perceive as the most pressing social issue around systemd and
> systemd upstream, but also partly systemd Debian packagers is the complete
> refusal to treat some bug reports and some kind of feedback in a way that
> actually *acknowledges* the feedback. See the "wont fix" on the Google
> nameserver thing, see some systemd related bug reports on freedesktop, see
> the comment on Linus to Kay Sievers about the debug kernel command line.
> Linus put it really bluntly. I bet you can find his post easily.
>
> That is the most severe social issue: Some systemd upstream developers and
> systemd debian packagers do seem to believe sooooo much that their way is
> right, that they do not even consider that a different oppinion could be
> valid *at all*. And if one brings this up as a social issues they
> completely refuse to discuss it. I experienced this myself on systemd-
> devel before I unsubscribed there again. I experienced this myself on own
> systemd related bug reports I filed with Debian.
>

Hi Martin,

that's exactly what I referred to when I talked of the
systemd-nonsense as a "cancer". The damage is not merely technical and
localised to the relatively minor issue of replacing PID 1, as you
correctly pointed out, but "systemic" and "social". And that's exactly
why we should be more concerned about it.

As far as I can remember, no major free software project has survived
long by answering "wont fix" more often that "thanks for pointing this
out". The only difference here is that we are not talking of an editor
or a shell, for which you have several hundred easy replacements, but
of an entire "new" way of conceiving free software development, which
can be summarised in "I don't mind WTF you think is good, because I am
the only one in charge". And unfortunately this "new" way is rapidly
spreading, as you correctly pointed out again, from the systemd core
team to systemd package maintainers and project leaders.

That's exactly why I believe that the Devuan effort is more
fundamental, because it will establish and confirm an *proactive* and
*human* free software development model.

HND

KatolaZ

P.S.: I acknowledge that "doing things" is ways more important that
chit-chatting, but I believe that the (sometimes prolonged) threads in
this ML are contributing to build a new sense of community, so it's
not just wasted time ;-)

--
[ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
[ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
[ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ]