On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 21:00:49 +0100
Anto <aryanto@???> wrote:


> Will Devuan be really free from systemd and its components? Or will
> there be trade-off being applied so that some of systemd components
> will be used in Devuan?

Of course, I can't answer authoritatively, because my only role in the
project is documentation. But I *can* tell you about the couple months
during which I did the Manjaro Experiments.

With the Manjaro Experiments, getting rid of systemd was a journey, not
an event. The first thing I did was simply init with a different init
system (openrc, runit and Epoch). At that point, every silly systemd
helper system was intact and used. Then slowly I began to replace those
things. One by one, I pretty much replaced everything except udev.

And of course, my Manjaro Experiments were much less challenging than
Devuan's ultimate goal. I supported only LXDE and Openbox. I didn't
need to support LVM or encription or even non-default disk partitioning
or GUID support. A lot of what I did was, if user software needed a
systemd dependency, I just got rid of that user software. Except for
Gnome, Devuan can't do that.

From my Manjaro Experiments experience, I would be neither surprised nor
dissapointed if the first beta release of Devuan had some remaining
systemd'isms. It's a step, in the right direction, on the journey
toward complete independence from all things systemd.

I'd also like to point out that the perfect is the enemy of the good. I
fear that if we hold back release until every systemd'ism is gone,
we'll never release. And the fact is, forever, Red Hat and their
poetterproxy will be inserting new infections that can be removed, but
not instantaneously.

In summary, my personal opinion is 100% depoetterization is something
we're working toward, but it's better not to let that hold back our
releases, always assuming we're going in the right direction, which we
most certainly are right now.

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance