> My point is that Perl and Python as system software are forced on you in
> a Linux distribution as a requirement in much the same way that systemd
> is. You can't get rid of them

this is actually something i'm looking into fixing. my preference
would be to make a standard POSIX base to build upon. the LSB is a
bad joke.
--Gravis


On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 11:49 PM, T.J. Duchene <t.j.duchene@???> wrote:
> On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 18:11 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
>>
>> With all respect, T.J., those are merely programming languages--shell, C
>> and C++ are also "hard to extract"--but none are trying to dictate
>> policy.
>
> I would not consider C in that group, as the system actually requires
> the C library for the OS to function on the most basic level, not to
> mention that the kernel, Perl and Python are actually written in C.
>
> My point is that Perl and Python as system software are forced on you in
> a Linux distribution as a requirement in much the same way that systemd
> is. You can't get rid of them, without pulling a DIY. Linux as a
> platform does not require them to function.
>
> What makes it relevant to the conversation is that it is all about
> attitude. They are enthusiastically endorsed by communities that refuse
> to acknowledge that either can be as much of a hindrance as a help in
> many cases. For example, Python as a programming language is designed
> specifically to dictate how you do things, i.e. Zen of Python: "There
> should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."
>
> Sometimes Linux can be its own worst enemy.
>
>
>> Other tools we're familiar with also dictate policy at some level such
>> as dpkg and apt, however, the authors of those tools don't start
>> throwing around the term "haters" whenever someone sets out to compile
>> from source outside of their policy. Do you see the difference?
>
> There is some truth to that, but you can revisit that virtually anywhere
> there are fanboys/fangirls. The fact that few authors like LP can use
> the term "haters" to divert attention from the real issues, and then get
> a free pass just shows how easily the issue has polarized others and how
> easily the "sheeple" are manipulated into going along.
>
> t.j.
>
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