On Sat, 2015-02-28 at 21:03 +0100, Philip Lacroix wrote:

>
> I wouldn't call "personality clash" the case of a user having specific
> problems
> with systemd's networking tentacles on Debian Jessie, don't you think?

Actually, yes I would call it a personality problem, but only because I
have seen them before. No offense.

As for systemd having "tentacles", there is certainly truth to that, but
then the same argument could be said of Python or Perl. Both are rooted
so far into "standard" distributions that it is hard to extract them.

Ultimately, the whole problem revolves around the idea of packaging.
Personally, I've come to believe that the existing idea of package
management is more damaging to Linux than systemd itself. If the Debian
packaging system separated the actual init files from binary package
files, then majority of developers making Jesse packages that assume
systemd rather than System 5 would be non-issue.


> Anyway,
> I guess that far from focusing on subjective topics, DeVuan is forking
> DeBian
> itself right now, while encouraging objective and balanced discussion,
> which
> is welcome and a pleasure to read.


*Nod*

Fair enough, Philip. Who am I to say it does not have entertainment
value?


>
> Quite frankly, it sounds like you're actually trying to *pose* as a
> Devuan
> supporter, which you seem not to be.

Rest assured that I wouldn't be here if I didn't think Devuan was
worthwhile.

As a person who has written C code and used Unixes for about 20+ years,
I see some technical benefit in systemd's approach. Just because
systemd itself has design flaws does not mean the entire concept is bad.
The fact that I come right out and say so, even if it just happens to go
against the majority sensibility is: with blunt honestly, not my
problem.

I'm not really looking for a debate on the topic, because in the grand
scheme of things my opinion does not amount to much, really. Nor
should it. You should always make up your own mind.

If you'd rather not hear it, I can certainly go elsewhere or refrain
from posting, but I personally do not believe that Devuan needs "yes
men" (or yes-women).



>
> > The reality is that Linux is a mean-spirited, ugly camel with the
> > number
> > of humps chosen by committee. For all of that, it is rather endearing
> > -
> > because you can make of it what you will. No one can charge you in
> > court
> > or judge less of your character for doing your own thing.
>

> This one seems to have been inspired by Microsoft's ancient anti-Linux
> FUD
> marketing campaign - you know, the one with a long-proboscized
> monster-penguin.

Not at all. It is simply a comment on the collective nature of Linux.
Sometimes design by committee is not the best approach. That's simply
life. That I call Linux a "Linux is a mean-spirited, ugly camel with
the number of humps chosen by committee" but "endearing" at the same
time is nothing more than a recognition that it has flaws. There are
precisely zero perfect software projects in the world. Having had this
much time in the field, I simply have no illusions about it is all, and
I feel free to say so.

I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it hardly seems a secret to me.

Have a great day, Philip! =)

t.j.